LR4 Compomotive Question (Not Tires, I Promise)

#1
I'm currently running 18" LR3 wheels, with 1.25" spacers as originally described in the Overland Journal LR4 build thread here.

I've recently been looking at the Compomotive wheels that are popular here.

My question for those that understand the issues better than i do, is this. Would running the Compomotive wheels provide any benefit as far as less stress on the CV joints, or otherwise versus my current spacer setup?

Thanks
 
#2
I can't speak to the Compomotives but I do not believe they require spacers!!!???? I can't imagine a great company like Compomotive designing a wheel that needs a spacer so I am going to use my best judgment and say they do not! On the answer to your driveline question, ABSOLUTELY if the spacers are gone, the load on the hubs and bearings is reduced significantly overall. Does this transmit directly to the CV's; I would say no until the hub bearings start to wear. Once the hubs go, then everything on the driveline and steering gets more wear and tear as the hubs wobble around.

Wheel designers generally design wheels with the correct backspace and offset for clearance and performance but understand that there is always some sort of trade-off for putting those 18's on. I do not think I have heard anyone in the years I've been on here say Comps caused anything but an increase in smiles per miles and performance and usability. The only reason I didn't buy them is that I already had 18" OEM wheels so the tradeoff was not worth it.

Hope that helps, I'm sure the Compomotive users will pipe in on the wheel itself but most of us agree on spacer use; they have their purpose and positives and negatives that come with them and it's on you to decide what you are willing to accept.

Rover on my friend, Rover on!
 
#3
I'm currently running 18" LR3 wheels, with 1.25" spacers as originally described in the Overland Journal LR4 build thread here.

I've recently been looking at the Compomotive wheels that are popular here.

My question for those that understand the issues better than i do, is this. Would running the Compomotive wheels provide any benefit as far as less stress on the CV joints, or otherwise versus my current spacer setup?

Thanks
i am running spacers as well and have had zero issues to my CV joints, and i have run spacers on a bunch of vehicles other than my range rover with no issues. I always read on the internet that you're going to have to have problems if you run spacers but I nor anyone i know that runs spacers for a long period of time has had any issue.
 
#4
I'm sure not into forum disagreements and all that hoopla. I wasn't intending on not offering an opinion, just offering the "science" behind suspension and wheel designs and my personal experience.

My opinion is: I don't use them because I have my opinions on them due to my research and experience! hahahahaha:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Do your own research on "scrub radius" and "steering axis inclination"; there are some really good articles out there in the motorsport industry, on and off-road as well as some great engineering YouTube videos for us visually stimulated types (ME). Am I saying your bearings or suspension are going to fail? NO, but I am saying there are trade-offs you need to decide are worth it or not worth it backed by really smart engineers who get paid for this.

@Evomike glad we met, now you know a person who had problems! hahaha All good man, I'm just trying to help a guy make a decision off science and engineering.

Rover on my friends, Rover on!
 
#5
I'm sure not into forum disagreements and all that hoopla. I wasn't intending on not offering an opinion, just offering the "science" behind suspension and wheel designs and my personal experience.

My opinion is: I don't use them because I have my opinions on them due to my research and experience! hahahahaha:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Do your own research on "scrub radius" and "steering axis inclination"; there are some really good articles out there in the motorsport industry, on and off-road as well as some great engineering YouTube videos for us visually stimulated types (ME). Am I saying your bearings or suspension are going to fail? NO, but I am saying there are trade-offs you need to decide are worth it or not worth it backed by really smart engineers who get paid for this.

@Evomike glad we met, now you know a person who had problems! hahaha All good man, I'm just trying to help a guy make a decision off science and engineering.

Rover on my friends, Rover on!

curious what problems you had because of the wheel spacers? A quality bolt on wheel spacer will have no more adverse effect on wheel bearings than any setup larger tires and a negative offset
 
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#6
Wheel bearings for one. I had less than 11k miles on bearings, one was worn really bad and the other starting. I was running some fairly heavy weights so that extra moment put on the bearing face is the likely suspect for premature wear. Additionally, I lost suspension and steering travel without being able to fully tuck or turn the wheels without rubbing. Add an increase in unsprung and sprung weight with heavier/larger tires and all that other stuff we bolt to our rigs and I decided it was not a good option for me. Scrub, axis inclination, toe, camber, bump-steer, and track width are all impacted even more when we install the taller and wider tires we want; hence why we put spacers on. All of these changes have 2nd and 3rd order effects to the remainder of the driveline, steering, and suspension.

The biggest indicator I noticed was with my tie rods; when I removed them the braking shutter went away almost completely. Of course, the tie-rods were worn, but the play was amplified with the spacers installed due to the change in off-set under braking and acceleration. That's when my buddy started explaining to me about the various geometries we noticed on the road vs. off-road. He designs off-road suspensions on some reputable desert runners and now UTV market as well with some peeps from ORW race vehicles. I did my own research on this stuff, not that I didn't trust him, I just didn't know about everything he was swelling my brain with.

Like my 17" wheel mod; it came with some braking considerations I needed to assess! I did the research and found it met my desireable margin, safety is the number one concern first over function.

I ran spacers for a while and then realized that I was not getting the benefit over what the science validates. I believe hub-centric spacers are relatively safe when it comes to the likelihood of a catastrophic failure, however, they do not change the 2nd and 3rd order geometry issues that come with wheel spacers.

Like I said, its just my experience and I'm not trying to push my opinion on anyone, however, there is science behind it that I believe people should be aware of before they put them on; I know it's what I would want in advice.

Cheers fellas!
 
#7
Adding to this topic, I am running Compos on my D4 HSE without any spacers, lifted with IIDtool and only got rubbing on full lock offroad otherwise nothing. Awesome wheel

 
#8
Like I said, its just my experience and I'm not trying to push my opinion on anyone, however, there is science behind it that I believe people should be aware of before they put them on; I know it's what I would want in advice.

Cheers fellas!
Hey man, you must know if you stop to consider it, that a spacer is affecting geometry and stresses no different than a wider offset wheel. On BMW's and other cars there are even factory spec wheels, in packages even, that are much wider, and therefor the same result. The main difference here, if any, is that most people are not changing from an 8" wheel with 9" tread patch to a 9-10" wheel with wider tire.

When a bmw goes from a 8" all 4 corners to lets say 9 front 10 rear, the inside edge is pretty much in the same spot while the outer edge is at the maximum fender flush edge. This looks cool by the way ;) However the weight is still starting at roughly the same spot on the ground. So maybe there are added stresses when the lr3/4 uses a 25-30mm spacer but on the same tire and wheel which is now simply pushed out, not actually widened.

I imagine the turning and traction is slightly different too because that tread area is not widened, it is shifted into a different area. Hmmm....
 
#9
I'm currently running 18" LR3 wheels, with 1.25" spacers as originally described in the Overland Journal LR4 build thread here.

I've recently been looking at the Compomotive wheels that are popular here.

My question for those that understand the issues better than i do, is this. Would running the Compomotive wheels provide any benefit as far as less stress on the CV joints, or otherwise versus my current spacer setup?

Thanks
So you have committed a classic forum mistake. You've listed nothing about the vehicle. You only list spacer and lr3 wheel. For all we know you're trying to use it on a range rover, lr3, lr4, rr sport, evoque, discovery sport,....etc.

The UK wheel is the best choice. Overland Journal lr4 people are behaving cheap for some reason - in fact, I think it's ridiculous. If you want to set up an lr4 the best way, get the UK wheel. It allows the 18" tire choices with the least compromises. I read that it's offset is only maybe about 10-15mm which is awesome if correct. Trust me, the spacer route just screws things up more because of the offset shift. There are a couple tight spots that the shift will actually start to limit tire diameter when what you're wanting is the best overall size and for it to fit well in all conditions.

I'm about to rant on the Overland journal lr4 page after reading the nonsense they just posted about using spacers, rods, but not strut spacers. LOL
 
#10
So you have committed a classic forum mistake. You've listed nothing about the vehicle. You only list spacer and lr3 wheel. For all we know you're trying to use it on a range rover, lr3, lr4, rr sport, evoque, discovery sport,....etc.

The UK wheel is the best choice. Overland Journal lr4 people are behaving cheap for some reason - in fact, I think it's ridiculous. If you want to set up an lr4 the best way, get the UK wheel. It allows the 18" tire choices with the least compromises. I read that it's offset is only maybe about 10-15mm which is awesome if correct. Trust me, the spacer route just screws things up more because of the offset shift. There are a couple tight spots that the shift will actually start to limit tire diameter when what you're wanting is the best overall size and for it to fit well in all conditions.

I'm about to rant on the Overland journal lr4 page after reading the nonsense they just posted about using spacers, rods, but not strut spacers. LOL

You're correct, i did fail to mention my vehicle.

2012 LR4 HSE

Honestly, i went the spacer route years ago, before the Compomotives were as readily available as they seem to be now. I literally did it within a month or two of the info coming out in the Overland Journal LR4 thread.

Revisiting it now, as I am about at the end of my journey of modding my LR4, and those spacers were the only thing nagging the back of my mind that i might have done better.

It sure as heck wasn't just to be cheap after everything else done to the truck.

Your post agrees with what logical deduction was telling me.

For anyone interested truck has the following mods or options in addition to the 18" wheels/spacers:

Factory rear locker
Frame Horns Cut
TR Winch Bumper
TR Rear bumper w/ 2 Swing-outs
TR Sliders
TR Gas Tank Skid Plate
TR Transfer Case Skid Plate
GOE 2-Position Rods
GOE EAS Large Kit
Traxide Dual Battery System
National Luna Dual Battery Monitor
Wilson Cell Phone Booster
Kenwood TM-D710G Uhf/Vhf
Gap IIDBT Tool
ProSpeed Roof Rack
Blue Sea Auxiliary Rear Fuse Block
Rear USB Charging Ports
1,000W Rear Mounted Inverter
Big Sky Overhead Rifle Rack
Currently in shop for 29 gallon Auxiliary fuel tank and ARB front locker and underhood compressor
 
#11
The UK wheel is the best choice. Overland Journal lr4 people are behaving cheap for some reason - in fact, I think it's ridiculous. If you want to set up an lr4 the best way, get the UK wheel. It allows the 18" tire choices with the least compromises. I read that it's offset is only maybe about 10-15mm which is awesome if correct. Trust me, the spacer route just screws things up more because of the offset shift. There are a couple tight spots that the shift will actually start to limit tire diameter when what you're wanting is the best overall size and for it to fit well in all conditions.

I'm about to rant on the Overland journal lr4 page after reading the nonsense they just posted about using spacers, rods, but not strut spacers. LOL
That "write up" was actually done around 5-6 years ago when they had their project LR4. You can find the project thread somewhere in the Land Rover subforum. The Compomotives were relatively unknown then.
 

vintageracer

To Infinity and Beyond!
#12
Hey man, you must know if you stop to consider it, that a spacer is affecting geometry and stresses no different than a wider offset wheel. On BMW's and other cars there are even factory spec wheels, in packages even, that are much wider, and therefor the same result. The main difference here, if any, is that most people are not changing from an 8" wheel with 9" tread patch to a 9-10" wheel with wider tire.
Look at the "Big" wheels on BMW's, Porsche's, Corvette's and other FACTORY OEM wheel car and truck setups. They ALL now run large Negative Offset Wheels (flat face) which is completely do to the total suspension design that takes advantage of modern suspension design which includes Wider Track Width, Better Scrub Radius, Bump steer, the big wheel/tire combinations, Caster, Camber and Toe In and many other geometry angles among the many factors. Those big wheels/tire DO effect the handling in huge positive way when designed properly to take advantage of the larger tire width.

No OEM builds a performance vehicle today that includes wheels with a large "Lip" on the outside of the wheel that looks "So Kool" as that wheel design does not take advantage of modern suspension design. Using "Adapters" (Spacer's) widen's the Track Width just like adding those BIG positive offset wheels which places the load farther away from the suspension center line which changes the scrub radius, which changes the tie rod angles and on and on! All this totally defeats the original design of the suspension geometry and rarely does that happen in a good way! Now you know why there are cheap suspension/lift kits and expensive ones. Most of the expensive kits (Not All) use the services of a competent suspension engineer to design the "Lift Kit" to obtain the best geometry that is possible given the constraints of the original suspension design. It's ALL a compromise when you start installing aftermarket wheels, tires, lift kits, adapters, spacers and the like.

If that wheel/tire package looks KOOL it most likely Did Not help your suspension geometry and setup! Just look at ALL the suspension geometry changes when "Level" your truck. Toe In, Bump Steer, Tie Rod angles, CV joint angles if 4WD and more ALL Change and ALL you did was "Level" the front-end of your truck a couple of inches. From a suspension geometry point of view that change was NOT for the better however it sure does LOOK GOOD!

Modern suspension design encompasses the complete Front and Rear suspension design. So you might want to consider this question when you start all these suspension changes:

Do you want better suspension performance or are you just trying look good?

Rarely do those two items come together in one good aftermarket suspension package!
 
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