Lower budget fridge? Iceco?

[ChadHahn]

I used to have a Truckfridge. I think I bought with a group buy from a Toyota forum. That was years ago. It seemed to be very similar to the Dometic I also have. I ended up selling it because I only needed one fridge but I was very happy with it until then.

When I travel I plug the fridge into my Goal Zero. Then I plug the Yeti into the cigarette lighter. Of course if space is a concern, that may not work.

 

[direwolf82]

I used to have a Truckfridge. I think I bought with a group buy from a Toyota forum. That was years ago. It seemed to be very similar to the Dometic I also have. I ended up selling it because I only needed one fridge but I was very happy with it until then.

When I travel I plug the fridge into my Goal Zero. Then I plug the Yeti into the cigarette lighter. Of course if space is a concern, that may not work.

I've been looking at those (under the indel name) as well as the iceco, they both have models that would fit. Have to say iceco pricing is pretty nice.
The idea of a portable battery is pretty nice, I just don't think I'd take advantage of it. The eventual goal is 2nd battery in the engine bay, or behind the seat like I have now. I put it there temporarily but this might be one of those times temporary is a really long time.
I'm not familiar with goal zero, what are they like quality wise and pricing wise? Do you know who makes the actual battery and charger portions?

Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk

 

[vtsoundman]

All my fridges(just one) do fine running for a 2-3 nights plus running other gear/lights/ham radio/charging phones w/o solar on a 100Ah AGM battery. Ambient conditions vary - hot desert = 2 nights. Forest/cool = 3 nights. 2 nights w/2 fridges in a cool area w/o solar is about the limit. I use a small USB fan on the outside to help with compressor efficiency and make sure they can breath. In the CFX65, a small fan moves air around on a 30% duty cycle.

I used to work in the field in my Jeep and had all sorts of crap running from comms & specialized elec equipment to computers to coolers - had 100Ah for a house battery and a 100Ah under the hood.

My underhood battery is an AGM Duracell from Sam's club that's $165. The house battery is a universal power group AGM ... I picked it up for $150 or so about 6 years ago. Both batteries have been discharged well beyond 80% dozens of times...and they're doing just fine. However, I also haven't been too terribly remote in the last 1.5 years because of COVID - and I will never go remote with a starter battery that's over 4 years old. I'll do some capacity testing shortly to see how they're doing...and make a decision to replace.

I can always go out into the field with a fresh battery and still be less expensive than using Northstar or Odyssey some other premium brand. Search for my other posts where I've worked out the economics of inexpensive versus expensive LA batteries...

Recall 50% DoD does NOT mean death to your battery - dropping below 50% SoC from time to time is fine. You'll likely change the battery out from calendar life death before cycling it out. People are needlessly cautious/fearful of the 50% guideline - the batteries will handle 500 or more cycles below 50%.

Dial the clock back a few years and a 100Ah secondary battery was a luxury and that was with less efficient fridges and incandescent lights. Also, most underhood dual battery kits duplicate the OEM battery size (e.g., Jeep 64Ah) and people RAVE about their capacity.

50-100w of rigid solar panels (not name plate on flexible or canvas bag solar kits) will do you just fine for stationary for a few days. If base camping, all the reqs go up -> solar, battery, etc.

For PNW, there is much overcast and rain - so increase solar to compensate.

My IceCo is used as my aux freezer set at
-5 in the van and runs 24/7 for the last few years. It also does duty in the Jeep as a weekend adventurer....so at least 60% continuous operation. It will sweat a bit when used as a freezer in humid locales - so use/get the bag that came with it. (So do the others too).


Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[direwolf82]

All my fridges(just one) do fine running for a 2-3 nights plus running other gear/lights/ham radio/charging phones w/o solar on a 100Ah AGM battery. Ambient conditions vary - hot desert = 2 nights. Forest/cool = 3 nights. 2 nights w/2 fridges in a cool area w/o solar is about the limit. I use a small USB fan on the outside to help with compressor efficiency and make sure they can breath. In the CFX65, a small fan moves air around on a 30% duty cycle.

I used to work in the field in my Jeep and had all sorts of crap running from comms & specialized elec equipment to computers to coolers - had 100Ah for a house battery and a 100Ah under the hood.

My underhood battery is an AGM Duracell from Sam's club that's $165. The house battery is a universal power group AGM ... I picked it up for $150 or so about 6 years ago. Both batteries have been discharged well beyond 80% dozens of times...and they're doing just fine. However, I also haven't been too terribly remote in the last 1.5 years because of COVID - and I will never go remote with a starter battery that's over 4 years old. I'll do some capacity testing shortly to see how they're doing...and make a decision to replace.

I can always go out into the field with a fresh battery and still be less expensive than using Northstar or Odyssey some other premium brand. Search for my other posts where I've worked out the economics of inexpensive versus expensive LA batteries...

Recall 50% DoD does NOT mean death to your battery - dropping below 50% SoC from time to time is fine. You'll likely change the battery out from calendar life death before cycling it out. People are needlessly cautious/fearful of the 50% guideline - the batteries will handle 500 or more cycles below 50%.

Dial the clock back a few years and a 100Ah secondary battery was a luxury and that was with less efficient fridges and incandescent lights. Also, most underhood dual battery kits duplicate the OEM battery size (e.g., Jeep 64Ah) and people RAVE about their capacity.

50-100w of rigid solar panels (not name plate on flexible or canvas bag solar kits) will do you just fine for stationary for a few days. If base camping, all the reqs go up -> solar, battery, etc.

For PNW, there is much overcast and rain - so increase solar to compensate.

My IceCo is used as my aux freezer set at
-5 in the van and runs 24/7 for the last few years. It also does duty in the Jeep as a weekend adventurer....so at least 60% continuous operation. It will sweat a bit when used as a freezer in humid locales - so use/get the bag that came with it. (So do the others too).


Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

All really good to know. Thanks for chiming in with the real world usage experience, theory is nice and all but reality can be different. No offense to anyone else meant.
Dad's old,old fridge would run on the boat for 5 days before we had to run the engine and charge the house battery. That fridge was probably from the mid 80's and not the best efficiency, it was also pulling from a couple 8d's so not the most fair comparison.
I find batteries to be a lot tougher than people say. Not sure how many completely dead batteries I've had in the garage that I throw a charge at and use for years but it's been a few. Starter batteries I try to keep "fresh" although last year I had to replace the original battery out of my 03 Toyota. Those Panasonics go forever apparently.
People say don't go below 50 percent on the battery, they also say don't go wheeling by yourself but I primarily go with just my dog, I've discovered it's all in how you do things that makes a difference. I also tend to not listen to the masses and go my own way more often than not. I take what others say with a healthy grain of salt.
I tend not to be a name brand only person unless the name brand is legitimately worth it. Just takes a little digging around to figure things out usually.
If I ever do a base camp situation I'll have the trailer and I've got a couple deep cycle 8d batteries lined up to go in there. Weight makes zero difference to me in that truck trailer setup, I need to put 1000 pounds of crap in the back just to smooth out the ride of the truck and the trailer has things that look like springs but don't really act like them.
I'll be in New England so not sure how much power solar would really generate for me on average. It would help but not sure it could keep up, anybody from the north country have a take on solar up there?
Why rigid panels and not flexible? I haven't researched them at all so I'm not familiar with the differences. Assuming efficiency?
That's a bunch of use on your fridge, my confidence in the brand is growing.

Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk

 

[direwolf82]

Fwiw,
From Costco I bought a 40ι budget friendly under 300$ fridge. “Massimo” its brand, what I think is a rebadge of Alpicool.
Anyway, it will fit into your 15” maximum with 1/8” to spare. It has wheels and telescopic handle much like a suitcase. Removing that would reduce another 1”.
Overall I like it. Its been running alot. Mostly at home or in my car for buying groceries. Its been on a few camping trips, with no problems.
Its definitely a low budget appliance lacking features of expensive ’fridges, But working fine.
At 12V, It consumes about 18Ah per day. Its contents about 35°F in the shade. About 80°F max daytime.

Features I can do without, in my mind that's just more stuff to break. K.I.S.S.
I'll look into that brand, depending on vent locations that could be in contention. I'm leaning pretty heavily toward something with a Danfoss compressor, have had great experiences with them all the way back to the Adler days. Thanks for the heads up!

Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk

 

[vtsoundman]

An 8d battery is 250Ah or so - so your experience hangs with mine. Recall I said 2 nights in the desert...or 3 days on a 100Ah w/other crap running too. Can I get 6 full days out of 200Ah...hells no. I'd be in/out of it too much and the food/cold frozen content would dimnish...

Here is a quick counter example when conditions are poor : couple days ago, tossed a 6 pack of room temp waters into a hot ICECO. Jeep with black roof parked in full sun. Interior temps who knows, well over 120...(90F outside). Turned fridge to -08 on MAX. Promptly got distracted and forgot about it. It consumed 68Ah of my ~5.5-6yo UPG 100Ah AGM over ~36hrs. Oops...prolly came close to flattening it. Time for a 20Hr capacity test me thinks...my guess that 100Ah battery is down around 75-80Ah at this point.

Flexible solar panels (for a long list of technicals I'll spare ya ) have horrible efficiency and are very prone to microfractures causing significant capacity loss. Just grab a corner to move them around and listen to them pop/crack. The protective cell covering is prone to yellowing and allows less than optimal light transmission. They also dissipate heat very poorly - panels' efficiency drops 0.3-0.5%/degC rise above STC (25C).

I ran a random a pair of 160W flexible panel (320W total) sets for two weeks to help with recharge duty in the van while in the shade. These were remotely located some distance away in full sun with #8 wire. Never saw more than 200W - most of the time I saw 160-180 on 320W worth of panels!! A rigid was doing close to 90% of it's rating (coastal air is not always the most emmisive).

Rigid panels use glass and allow more light through. Before ya react - realize these panels can withstand hail and gale force winds w/o damage. You'll often see (idiots) walking on the panels and it does little immediate harm (it will/does cause microfractures and will result in long term capacity loss).

If you have the space, go for a full residential panel (huge, 300-450W panels)....if not, stick with Renogy. They have the better rigid panels available for a reasonable price point.

Just re-read your OP. Freezing fresh fish in these little fridges won't work well - it will take too long (they don't have the BTU rejection capability). Are you talking about having the fish flash frozen/rapidly frozen or trying to do it yourseld with a IceCo or similar?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[john61ct]

Just because an 8D flooded battery says "deep cycle" on the sticker does not mean it is.

Only two companies make true deep cycle batteries in 4D & 8D, Rolls / Surrette & Dyno.

The others won't last long at all, especially if cycled much below 50% SoC.

 

[direwolf82]

An 8d battery is 250Ah or so - so your experience hangs with mine. Recall I said 2 nights in the desert...or 3 days on a 100Ah w/other crap running too. Can I get 6 full days out of 200Ah...hells no. I'd be in/out of it too much and the food/cold frozen content would dimnish...

Here is a quick counter example when conditions are poor : couple days ago, tossed a 6 pack of room temp waters into a hot ICECO. Jeep with black roof parked in full sun. Interior temps who knows, well over 120...(90F outside). Turned fridge to -08 on MAX. Promptly got distracted and forgot about it. It consumed 68Ah of my ~5.5-6yo UPG 100Ah AGM over ~36hrs. Oops...prolly came close to flattening it. Time for a 20Hr capacity test me thinks...my guess that 100Ah battery is down around 75-80Ah at this point.

Flexible solar panels (for a long list of technicals I'll spare ya ) have horrible efficiency and are very prone to microfractures causing significant capacity loss. Just grab a corner to move them around and listen to them pop/crack. The protective cell covering is prone to yellowing and allows less than optimal light transmission. They also dissipate heat very poorly - panels' efficiency drops 0.3-0.5%/degC rise above STC (25C).

I ran a random a pair of 160W flexible panel (320W total) sets for two weeks to help with recharge duty in the van while in the shade. These were remotely located some distance away in full sun with #8 wire. Never saw more than 200W - most of the time I saw 160-180 on 320W worth of panels!! A rigid was doing close to 90% of it's rating (coastal air is not always the most emmisive).

Rigid panels use glass and allow more light through. Before ya react - realize these panels can withstand hail and gale force winds w/o damage. You'll often see (idiots) walking on the panels and it does little immediate harm (it will/does cause microfractures and will result in long term capacity loss).

If you have the space, go for a full residential panel (huge, 300-450W panels)....if not, stick with Renogy. They have the better rigid panels available for a reasonable price point.

Just re-read your OP. Freezing fresh fish in these little fridges won't work well - it will take too long (they don't have the BTU rejection capability). Are you talking about having the fish flash frozen/rapidly frozen or trying to do it yourseld with a IceCo or similar?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

A blast freezer would be pretty awesome but not feasible at all.
Just something to keep them below 20-25 or so for a couple days till I get to the house freezer, or eventually I'll have the trailer set up with a bigger/better system. It won't be adding a huge amount of fish at a time, maybe something like adding a pound or two every 3 or 4 hours so decently spread out load. I think spread out but don't have a huge amount of experience with these new fridges. I have also thought about bringing co2 and making dry ice as I go but that seems like a bit much to drag around.
Glass doesn't scare me, being in construction you learn things can be much stronger than you think. Besides that bullet proof glass is glass after all, a regular old car window is pretty dang strong and the windows in your house have to be wind load rated.
Get as technical as you want! If I can't keep up with it my electrician friend can translate for me, haha.
When I get my roof rack figured out I'm going to do a rigid solar panel on a slide, saw that idea somewhere and really like it, so I don't have to unload the rack or leave it empty for the panel to get light.
We always started the boat fridge at least a day before we needed it so it could cool the case and insulation down before any warm food got put in, that seemed to help a fair bit.

Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk

 

[direwolf82]

Just because an 8D flooded battery says "deep cycle" on the sticker does not mean it is.

Only two companies make true deep cycle batteries in 4D & 8D, Rolls / Surrette & Dyno.

The others won't last long at all, especially if cycled much below 50% SoC.

That could be good to know. The house battery on the boat regularly gets discharged to less than 50% and has been in there for 15 years, minimum. Interstate battery maybe? We don't run an aux genny, just let the battery drop and run the engine for a while when needed.
Also the joy of knowing the yards, we can get free batteries so chances are I'm not going to be running new batteries anyways, I'll just run whatever brand they have kicking around the storage yard. Put a load and capacity test on it pick the best ones and run with it.


Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk

 

[john61ct]

Works fine for you then, so long as you aren't in a primitive / remote location when it fails.

Those traveling that way for years away from civilisation will want to plan differently.

 

[direwolf82]

Works fine for you then, so long as you aren't in a primitive / remote location when it fails.

Those traveling that way for years away from civilisation will want to plan differently.

Well, we trusted being pretty remote in the boat and highly dependant on the batteries.
Miles off shore isn't the place to lose pumps, especially in an 80 year old wood boat and we never had an issue with the 12 volt system. We would go out for 2 or 3 weeks solid every summer.
I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, just from my experience it's not as crucial to have brand new batteries as people think. Especially in a truck on land, if the battery dies it's inconvenient, not life threatening.
Who stays remote for years at a time? What do they do for food and supplies? Do they park an 18 wheeler trailer out there for supplies?
Not being facetious just genuinely curious how you can be years in the field and not see a store or civilisation?

Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk

 

[john61ct]

The issue is not new batteries

Many full-time cruisers in remote third-world locations depend on banks well over a decade old.

The point is to buy new units known to be reliable in the first place,

benchmark capacity after the break-in period with a CC dummy load to establish a 100% baseline

Then once SoH has declined to 80% proactively start planning replacement for when you are in a place you can find a suitable set.

Some places you need to order many months in advance, and the shipping costs might be as much as the bank.

In that context, using secondhand cells would not be an option even if they were free.

 

[direwolf82]

The issue is not new batteries

Many full-time cruisers in remote third-world locations depend on banks well over a decade old.

The point is to buy new units known to be reliable in the first place,

benchmark capacity after the break-in period with a CC dummy load to establish a 100% baseline

Then once SoH has declined to 80% proactively start planning replacement for when you are in a place you can find a suitable set.

Some places you need to order many months in advance, and the shipping costs might be as much as the bank.

In that context, using secondhand cells would not be an option even if they were free.

Works fine for you then, so long as you aren't in a primitive / remote location when it fails.

Those traveling that way for years away from civilisation will want to plan differently.

Above is copy pasted from your previous reply.

I simply mentioned my actual experience with older and used batteries. You said if your away from civilisation for years that wouldn't be a good idea then said plenty of people in 3rd world countries run 10 year old batteries and it's fine. How is a 3 year old takeout battery worse than a 10 year old battery when no idea of branding is known or indicated? Personally to me a brand new battery doesn't mean reliable, it just means shiny and clean. A battery that has been in use for a few years and has never given a problem is proven reliable.
The first line where you say new isn't the issue quality is, that's followed by you saying buy a new reliable battery. So I'm a hair confused by that.
As far as acid is concerned, I guess you've never dumped half a battery out and refilled with fresh? Every time I've done that the battery comes back strong, not perfect but perfectly usable.
Last two points you made, what does shipping cost and lead time matter to me? I'll be in New England as stated previously.
Or conversely if I was in a 3rd world country and had the choice of waiting for months on a battery that cost twice what it should or using a used one I would use what was available and worked. The used one more than likely would be fine and it isn't hard to test them.
Would you really wait to use your fridge for months because a new shiny battery wasn't available but a dirty used one was sitting right there?
I don't live in a theoretical world, I deal with the realities of a situation and the reality is I'm building a rig for my use. I'm not going to the Simpson desert for 10 months at a time, I'm not going to the tip of South Africa. I'm going someplace I can walk out of in 3 or 4 days if I have to. Mechanical issues to me are part of the adventure, if everything is flawless that's awesome, if I have to double up batteries and weld my frame back together less awesome but still a good time and a good story for later.
I don't mean to sound like a jerk although I'm pretty sure I do, not my intention. I can be a little direct sometimes. And if I'm reading what you're saying wrong please let me know so we can have a conversation and learn from each other.



Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk

 

[direwolf82]

When those batteries eventually crapout, they bring them here.

That's pretty awesome. Got to love when people show that level of skill, knowledge and just general get it done attitude.

Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk

 

[john61ct]

How is a 3 year old takeout battery worse than a 10 year old battery when no idea of branding is known or indicated? Personally to me a brand new battery doesn't mean reliable, it just means shiny and clean. A battery that has been in use for a few years and has never given a problem is proven reliable.
The first line where you say new isn't the issue quality is, that's followed by you saying buy a new reliable battery.

I was clear in stating you do you, my advice does not pertain to your situation.

There are only a few makers of quality deep cycling batteries capable of delivering many years of reliable service. Starting with new units of those, and knowing how well **you** have coddled their care every cycle, is what gives assurance of longevity.

Someone else caring for it even just 50 cycles, could inflict 300 cycles worth of wear or even push it past EoL.