Looking for a "survival rifle"

lowenbrau

Explorer
Fireman78 said:
On what planet is that thing legal?? Looks like a felony to me. (Yes I want one!)
You can't carry a handgun up here but as long as you don't conceal it, certain 8.5" shotguns are ok. I predict that the pistol grip is going to be reclassified as restricted soon and then you'll need a permit every time you move it but until then its non restricted, no different than my 30" trap gun.
 

durangodds

Adventurer
I'm going back to what you said in your original question.

adrenaline503 said:
So, I have never owned a gun, and until recently I haven't really had any interest. Anyway, I am looking for a rifle that I could use for hunting and for some light security in the backcountry. I also plan to pick up a tactical shotgun for home security, so that would be a secondary role.
Whether or not you can use a gun for hunting is going to vary from state to state with regards to regulations. In most states it is illegal to hunt big game (including deer) with a .22 caliber gun (this includes the .223's). You also have restrictions on the magazine size, which would include the Ruger you have selected. There are also seasons to consider and health factors. I'd have to be pretty desperate to handle a rabbit at any time but when there is snow on the ground. The fleas on those things carry some nasty stuff including the plague. We had 8 cases of it here last summer. Fish and game will nail you unless you can really prove it was a true "survival" situation.

With your limited experience with firearms what are the chances of you making a clean, one shot kill on ANYTHING with a .22? In other words, scrap the .22 idea, it's a poor choice because it is nonsensical for any real hunting and offers no benefit for security.

Save yourself the pennies and buy one gun, the tactical 12 gauge of which people have shown plenty of great options. If you ever do run into a real security issue it will take care of business. You could also use it to hit a small or large mammal in a survival situation.

If your thinking about hunting to put food on the table then get a 7mm-08. It's light kicking, fun to shoot, and simply kills everything it touches inside 250 yards.
 

Haggis

Appalachian Ridgerunner
durangodds said:
If your thinking about hunting to put food on the table then get a 7mm-08. It's light kicking, fun to shoot, and simply kills everything it touches inside 250 yards.
:iagree: For a starter hunting rifle, durango's right, the 7mm-08 has really impressed me over the last couple of years. My Dad started buying this calibre in a Remington Model 7 Youth for the girls to hunt with. So far my daughter in her first year has dropped both a doe and a buck with one shot, each clean kills and my niece has dropped three deer in the last 2 years in the same manner. The impact of these calibres is unbelieveable considering how little felt recoil there is even in the light weight youth models. Accuracy is also quite impressive; my daughter can hold a 1.5" group in the 10 ring, off hand at 75 yards. Off the bench her gun will hold .5" groups at 100 yrds with over the counter shells (Remington Express Core Lokt 140gr PSPs).

Here's a couple of shots; 1st - My daughter, Allison, with her first deer and her Model 7 Remington 7mm-08. 2nd - My neice, Stephanie, also using a Model 7 Youth 7mm-08, with her first buck harvested this year.
 

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Fireman78

Expedition Leader
I'm talking about SURVIVAL. If Mr Fish and Game guy shows up GREAT. Now I'm rescued and being taken back to the world. Real survival, not percieved survival. I'm not talking about living out in a cabin in the woods, or an 80K $$ fifth wheel and hunting a deer. Were talkin about being actually lost in the woods, starving, weak, disoriented, survival. :26_7_2:
 

easy610

Observer
Fireman78 said:
I'm talking about SURVIVAL. If Mr Fish and Game guy shows up GREAT. Now I'm rescued and being taken back to the world. Real survival, not percieved survival. I'm not talking about living out in a cabin in the woods, or an 80K $$ fifth wheel and hunting a deer. Were talkin about being actually lost in the woods, starving, weak, disoriented, survival. :26_7_2:
If you got the room to carry it, a light weight youth sized bolt action would do -.308 or 30.06 caliber would be my choice...but thats me.

30.06 is one of, if not the most prolific caliber in NA.

**EDIT**

If you need food fast, probably better served with hunting squirrel or rabbit so then I would opt for the .22lr. rifle. Light recoil and ammo is feather weight = you could easily carry a couple hundred rounds.

Not my choice for defensive purposes (four legged or two legged..) but thats not what you asked so...
 

Haggis

Appalachian Ridgerunner
Easy, I think you're right when it comes to a .22 as a good carry gun if your out in the boonies. It's not likely your gonna take the time to stalk big game if your in Fireman's "Survival" situation, and a .22 will take all the survival species (rabbit, chuck, squirrel, sittting bird) with apolmb. A couple of hundred .22 shells take up a lot less room then a similar amount of shotgun shells. But since this is an vehicle based discussion forum I think this whole thread applies to a "truck gun" and though mine is a shotgun, any firearm you are comfortable with, can take some abuse, and you can shot well is the right choice for you.

Another rifle that rides around in my truck a good bit of the time is an New England Arms single shot Sportster in .17 HMR. This gun is wicked on chucks, coyotes and squirrels, and is highly accurate.

If you truly find yourself in a true survival incident, you really should teach yourself how to set snares, make a frog and fish gig, and know how to hand pick fish. Then go out and put into practice before you need those skills. It ain't easy. And if you run out of shells for your survival gun or it malfunctions, that firearm ain't nothing but a club.
 
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Carlyle

Explorer
Hmm, interesting discussion. For a choice of weapons I would probably carry my Bushmaster carbon fiber .223 with 4x for for survival. At 4 lbs, it won't tear up the meat too much and has enough stopping power for a deer if shots are well placed. For home security my Benelli Super 90 12 gauge is the ultimate choice, not much aiming, never jams and doesn't take out neighbors...
 

gooseboy

Observer
If you are considering an 870 Express be careful.. I am an 870 junkie and love them to death but frankly the finish on them has gone down in the past few years.. If you dont take care of them properly they will rust on you. Look at an 870 wingmaster or perhaps an aftermarket finish on an express.. A shotgun is one of the best bush guns.. The only thing is the lack of range. But you can go from shot to slug and take down just about anything..

Although the .22 wont take down to much its cheap to shoot and is useful in some situations.

A 30-30 is also a great brush gun but once again doesnt have to much range to it, however Hornady came out with its Lever Revolution polymer tip ammo for it and it supposodly adds about 100 yards onto the 30-30 cartridge.

30-06 is also a great caliber and good for north american game.

The 7mm is an AWESOME caliber and will take down just about everything in North America (if your comfortable shooting a grizzly or polar bear with one) however in a survival situation ammo may be hard to come by.

.223 AR-15 or a .308 AK (some variant WASRs are usually the cheapest) is a decent brush gun and good survival weapon if bugging out.. If placed correctly a .223 will take down a deer. The downfall of the AR-15 is that you must maintain it well.. The AK on the other hand, takes little to nothing to maintain.

If I were sent to some planet and had no idea what to expect and could only bring one gun it would be a 12 gauge shotgun, if it had to be a rifle it would be the AK-47 or one of its many variants.

A survival firearm is not just being out in the woods lost on a hunt or camping trip. It could be something similar to hurricane katrina a weapon to defend yourself, or some natural disaster, or a hazmat where you have to gather your stuff and family and leave as soon as possible, grab one gun and go. It has to sufficiently defend you and provide for you all while being reliable.

Hope this helped.
 

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gooseboy

Observer
Carlyle said:
Hmm, interesting discussion. For a choice of weapons I would probably carry my Bushmaster carbon fiber .223 with 4x for for survival. At 4 lbs, it won't tear up the meat too much and has enough stopping power for a deer if shots are well placed. For home security my Benelli Super 90 12 gauge is the ultimate choice, not much aiming, never jams and doesn't take out neighbors...
Not much aiming is kind of a common stereotype and mistake of shotgun owners who use them for self defense.. In a home defense situation they are usually used in close quarters and aiming is absoloutly required required. Even if your using an Improved Cylinder choke at close quarters the pellets are not given enough time to expand and create a large pattern.
 

gooseboy

Observer
Fireman78 said:
On what planet is that thing legal?? Looks like a felony to me. (Yes I want one!)
Actually you can own a tank or howitzer flame thrower or m249 saw if you want.. You just need the right papers and permits for it.. I believe for fully automatic weapons you need a class III license and for things like RPGs and grenade launchers your need a DD license (destructive device) dont quote me on that though.
 

upatree

Observer
It is a pistol

It sure looks like a pistol to me as it only has a pistol grip and no stock. I have seen ar-15 in shows that have just a pistol grip and on the mag well is inscribed "pistol only" even if it takes a 30 round mag. looks like it would be a great vehicle weapon.
 

oldcj5guy

Adventurer
A friend of mine just bought a 10/22 built as a pistol. Has a shorter bull barrel and real nice synthetic chassis.
 

WJinTRSC

Adventurer
I personally always considered Ruger's Mini 14 as a possibility if I ever really needed to stock up w/ my survival gear. It's relatively small, available in Stainless, reliable(being based on the M1 action) and while the shells aren't as "convenient" as the .22, they're not super huge and can take down a pretty wide range of food. Just my .02 fwiw.
 
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GeoTracker90

Adventurer
Fireman78 said:
HOWEVER- for a true "survival" gun- you might want to take a look at this- the Springfield M6. These are issued (or at least were issue at some point) to USAF Pilots. It's a .410 shotgun/.22 cal . All you really need. Besides. In a long term survival situation- .22 are a heck of a lot lighter and cheaper than .223 http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html This is what I plan on getting one of these days. The gentelman who wrote that article added some pretty cool mods as well.
Boy the gun in the link looks pretty close to the one that I have. I sure like my M6 Survival built by Sprinfield Armory.






I bought my version off of my brother-in-law for $75.00. My understanding is that they are no longer being made. Mine has a .410 shotgun on the bottom and a .22 Hornet on top.

When compared to the gun in the link above you will notice that the one in the link was made by CZ and sold by Springfield. You will also notice that it has a sheet steel "triger" guard. Mine was actually built by Springfield and never had a trigger guard. In the stock I can carry 12 rounds of .22 Hornet as well as 4 rounds of .410 shot shell with another 9 in the elastic sleeve. I carry some bird shot as well as slugs. For the slugs I take a permanent marker and color the primers black. I can tell with a glance which are bird shot and which ones are slugs.

I would like to get either a pelican or storm case to keep this in with some other survival gear. My problem with keeping this in my vehicle is based on humidity changes. With the cold winters that we have here and the heating and cooling cycles that the interior of the truck sees, I have found rust to be an issue during the winter months. Keeping them tight in a waterproof case might be a solution though.

It sure is a fun gun to shoot, which is good because it lends itself to conducting practice. Is it the cheapest to shoot? NO! That said I would take it over a .22 LR any day in a true survival situation.

Mike

p.s. I think that these are now going for about $500.00 when you can find them.
 
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