Looking for a "survival rifle"

cowboy4x4

Explorer
I use a tactical shot gun I keep both slugs and bird rounds on hand.
with either round youcan survive and or eat.
the alaskan bush pilots prefer the same set up as well ,dual purpose..JMO
 

alaskantinbender

Adventurer
Like has been said already the shotgun is a great choice.
Most of the decision is based on your needs and requirements in your area.
I ended up with Mossbergs because I liked the double rail.
One has been bouncing around in the back of my truck for quite some time. I take it out, shoot, clean, reload it once a year. I also keep a ruger mark 2 in the glove box for those spruce hens I find along the road all the time......:chowtime:
In the house I prefer a .45 HK USPC with mounted light for those things that go "bump" in the night...
And my wife prefers the simplicity of a revolver for berry picking and various chores in the woods. so she settled on a SW mountian gun in 44 mag with a bear engraved on the reciever.

Regards,

Jim
 

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crawler#976

Expedition Leader
adrenaline503 said:

Why do you say that?
I'm rather fond of the KISS principle...

A double action revolver, pump shotgun, or bolt action rifle can sit for years with no maintenance (not that I'd recommend it :) ) They are simple, reliable, firearms. With the exception of the magazine spring on a pump, they can be left loaded for extended periods with no ill effects.

A semi-auto pistol, shotgun or rifle requires more care, knowledge, and training to be a dependable weapon. Springs fatigue, there are many more moving parts, if carried in a dirty environment they may or may not work.

I only own five firearms - three of which are semi-auto. A bolt action Mauser is my old hunting rifle, and one of my everyday handguns is a revolver. The rest are all proven "tactical" firearms. I've spent a lot of money and time becoming proficient in there use and care. A large part of the training involves clearing malfunctions quickly, very quickly.

I've slowed down in the past couple years on the number of rounds fired per weapon - last year I only fired about 200 .38 Spl, 1500 rounds of 40S&W, 1000 rounds of 5.56 NATO, and really cut back on 12G slugs - less than 50. That's down from 8000 rounds of pistol, 3000 rifle, and 200 12G rounds (00 and slugs). It's enough to keep the muscle memory intact - while not quite as quick as I once was, I can still place two well centered rounds in a plam sized group on target at 10 yards in 1.2 seconds from a holster. That's about 3/10's of a second slower than it was 4 years ago. With the rifle I'm a bit slower from a low ready - 2.1 seconds for two rounds at 50 yards is OK, but not great...

So, I guess the point of this ramble is that unless you want to dedicate a lot of time to it,

Keep It Simple Stupid. Remember that little guy Murphy???

A DA revolver goes bang when you pull the trigger. If it doesn't, pull it again. And the pump and bolt action are similary simple. There's no tap, rack, flip, for either a pistol or semi-auto rifle jam, or learning how to properly manipulate a semi-auto 12G if it jams, and in all three cases they do malfuntion sooner or later.

Mark
 

crawler#976

Expedition Leader
Negatives:

There are very few loads for 00 buck available for a 20 Gauge.

20 Gauge payload is roughly 75% of a 12 Gauge.

Recoil on a 12 Gauge is roughly 40% higher.

Positives:

Recoil is less on a 20 Gauge.

There are reduced recoil 12 Gauge Tactical loads available.

For dangerous animal protection (Moose, Bear) the 12 guage 3" 1-1/4 ounce slug is hard to beat at close range.
 
crawler#976 said:
Negatives:

There are very few loads for 00 buck available for a 20 Gauge.

20 Gauge payload is roughly 75% of a 12 Gauge.

Recoil on a 12 Gauge is roughly 40% higher.

Positives:

Recoil is less on a 20 Gauge.

There are reduced recoil 12 Gauge Tactical loads available.

For dangerous animal protection (Moose, Bear) the 12 guage 3" 1-1/4 ounce slug is hard to beat at close range.
To add to crawler#976's list above, another positive for the 12GA- Ammunition (shot and slugs) is available everywhere, 20GA ammunition availability is much more limited. As a long-time shotgun owner, having owned both 12's and 20's, as well as using both of these tools regularly over many years, I'd really recommend going with a rugged tactical 12GA over a 20GA.

As with any tool though, it is only as good as its user. Whatever you end up with, make sure to get very familiar and comfortable with the gun before considering it as a survival tool. Practice makes better.
 

Fireman78

Expedition Leader
adrenaline503 said:
So, I have never owned a gun, and until recently I haven't really had any interest. Anyway, I am looking for a rifle that I could use for hunting and for some light security in the backcountry. I also plan to pick up a tactical shotgun for home security, so that would be a secondary role.

I am quite taken by the kel-tec su-16b.

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/su16b.html

Does anyone have any experience with this model? I like that is light, collapses and uses a reasonable caliber round. I dont plan on hunting deer or anything that large; honestly, are you ever going to eat an entire deer before it goes bad? Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. Please don't turn this into "do you really need a gun in the back country" debate. Thanks.
A friend of mine has this rifle- also- I have the P-32 pistol. I think you will be suprised at the quality of Kel-Tec , I know I was. HOWEVER- for a true "survival" gun- you might want to take a look at this- the Springfield M6. These are issued (or at least were issue at some point) to USAF Pilots. It's a .410 shotgun/.22 cal . All you really need. Besides. In a long term survival situation- .22 are a heck of a lot lighter and cheaper than .223 http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html This is what I plan on getting one of these days. The gentelman who wrote that article added some pretty cool mods as well.
 
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akphotobob

Observer
Thinking completly outside the box I am very impressed with a new Taurus revolver called the Judge. It can shoot both 410 shotshells and 45 long Colt. I think the 410 would work for small game and snakes and a heavy load in the 45 Colt would work against 2 and 4 legged predators. I am currently carrying a Winchester Stainless Defender 12 gauge, and I am seriously considering selling it for a Taurus Judge. I hike a lot and I would much rather have the Judge on my hip instead of the Winchester on my back.

If you only want a long arm then my first choice would be a 12 gauge pump and my second choice a 30-30 lever action. Bob
 

Mercedesrover

Explorer
I've thought a lot about this and I really like the Henry Survival .22. It's cheap and small and will do the job in most cases. However, I just came across this and thought it's a terrific option.

It's a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 carbine in both 9mm or .40



The cool thing about it is it has a standard pistol handle and ordered to accept magazines for pistols you already have. In 9mm you can get them to take a Glock 17, Glock 19 or a Sig 226 mag, among others. There also available in Glock 22 and Sig 226 in .40. How cool is that?!?! You can carry both this carbine as well has your handgun of choice (where legal...) and only have to carry one type of ammo and one type of magazine, and many of them. Ideal if you ask me!

How's this for a survival kit?



Or this?




jim
 

Lynn

Expedition Leader
I could be mistaken, but I think that KelTec requires a 'dust cap' to seal off the receiver when it's folded. That seems like a bad idea to me.

Anyone had any experience with it?
 

GunnIt

Adventurer
For home defense I do not think that you can do any better than this. Load with alternate slugs and 00-buckshot. I bought a gun like this (it was "parkerized" for water protection) to carry when I guided in Alaska, to protect myself and my customers from brown bears. Now I just throw rocks at the bears and keep the gun in my house in case I need it.

Mossberg "riot gun"
 
Hmmm, no mention of pistol caliber lever actions yet?

I've got a little Model 94 in .357 that's a handy size, anyone who has watched a cowboy movie can work it, and the recoil is totally managable. Oh, and it holds 10 rounds, shoots .38spl too for cheep plinking.

Yeah, there's a .308 semi-auto, several 12gauges, blah, blah, blah in the house too...
 

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lowenbrau

Explorer
GunnIt said:
For home defense I do not think that you can do any better than this. Load with alternate slugs and 00-buckshot. I bought a gun like this (it was "parkerized" for water protection) to carry when I guided in Alaska, to protect myself and my customers from brown bears. Now I just throw rocks at the bears and keep the gun in my house in case I need it.

Mossberg "riot gun"
I agree

I don't think you'll do any better than a 12 gauge for a 'do everything' gun. If you end up looking a grizzly in the eye, a .22 rim fire is going to pee itself and come running out the end of the barrel. A 12 gauge slug has twice the ft lbs of a "feeling lucky punk?" 44 magnum...

The truck/hiking gun that's getting all the attention up here lately is this one from Dlask arms. Its on my 'to buy' list before my govt puts it on the restricted list.
 

Attachments

Fireman78

Expedition Leader
lowenbrau said:
I agree

I don't think you'll do any better than a 12 gauge for a 'do everything' gun. If you end up looking a grizzly in the eye, a .22 rim fire is going to pee itself and come running out the end of the barrel. A 12 gauge slug has twice the ft lbs of a "feeling lucky punk?" 44 magnum...

The truck/hiking gun that's getting all the attention up here lately is this one from Dlask arms. Its on my 'to buy' list before my govt puts it on the restricted list.
On what planet is that thing legal?? Looks like a felony to me. (Yes I want one!)
 
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