Lithium based chemistry for starting batteries

[dreadlocks]

I thought I knew what I was getting into when I bought my LFP, I had spent many long nights reading white papers and posts.. but I learned more in the last year and a half post-purchase than I ever could had before.. first you need to forget everything you think you know about batteries based off your decades of lead experience, and then you need to sift through all marketing, fud, know nothings w/a blog, etc..

Lithium Marketing is letting the technology down, people are gonna get sour grapes and the FUD's gonna get worse before it gets better.. those companies john mentioned are gonna come out on top and are gonna be the ones that push it out of these dark ages of ignorance and cheap promises.

 

[shade]

I thought I knew what I was getting into when I bought my LFP, I had spent many long nights reading white papers and posts.. but I learned more in the last year and a half post-purchase than I ever could had before.. first you need to forget everything you think you know about batteries based off your decades of lead experience, and then you need to sift through all marketing, fud, know nothings w/a blog, etc..

Lithium Marketing is letting the technology down, people are gonna get sour grapes and the FUD's gonna get worse before it gets better.. those companies john mentioned are gonna come out on top and are gonna be the ones that push it out of these dark ages of ignorance and cheap promises.

Rod Collins said as much when comparing lithium hype to gel hype of the past. I've learned a lot from several of you, but I realize I only have a cursory knowledge of these systems. I'd prefer having mastery of the material than going by rote, but I'll continue to climb that hill.

I hope Trojan Trillium is the real deal. They have the name recognition in NA that may help shove some of the bad actors into the ditch.

 

[dreadlocks]

Well to be fair, Gel is terrible for most everything.. and Lithium has much wider applicable uses.. but I see the same thing as AGM's going on.. spend more money, drop it in a system not designed for it, reap few if any benefits from the tech, then kill it way before it deserved to die.

My Progressive Dynamics "Lithium Ready" trailer circuit box/charger just dumps 14.6V constant and forever, how many ppl have camper plugged into back yard 6 months of the year cooking those cells? How come I'm forced to hodgepodge a custom charging setup together JUST so I can terminate charge completely when I want it too? Cuz Capitalism dont care about it, they got the money.. marketing done, now if they make it last forever and I never need to repurchase then thats bad for business.

When we're still rocking 15-20yro LFP banks with minimal capacity loss, seems everything else will be in a garbage pile somehwere.. guess then we'll have the data to show why a proper LFP system from the ground up is such a huge bump in battery tech.. but only if you are willing to do it right.

 

[shade]

Well to be fair, Gel is terrible for most everything.. and Lithium has much wider applicable uses.. but I see the same thing as AGM's going on.. spend more money, drop it in a system not designed for it, reap few if any benefits from the tech, then kill it way before it deserved to die.

From what RC said, gel was promoted as a "drop-in" replacement in systems designed for flooded lead batteries, and a lot of people got bit by the end result, which sounds like how lithium is being promoted today.

 

[luthj]

In 20 years most cars won't have a starter battery, so it may be a moot point.

 

[shade]

In 20 years most cars won't have a starter battery, so it may be a moot point.

I'll still need a starter battery for my 27 year old Tacoma in 2039.

 

[luthj]

Possibly, or battery tech will have made a drop-in EV conversion desirable. Most I was referring to the majority of Americans that get a new car every 7-8 years, and scrap vehicles after 12-13 years.

 

[shade]

Possibly, or battery tech will have made a drop-in EV conversion desirable. Most I was referring to the majority of Americans that get a new car every 7-8 years, and scrap vehicles after 12-13 years.

I was joking. I'll be surprised if my truck is still on the road twenty years from now, at least in my possession. It wasn't designed to last that long, and auto tech is advancing fast enough that something far better will probably be available.

 

[luthj]

I was joking. I'll be surprised if my truck is still on the road twenty years from now, at least in my possession. It wasn't designed to last that long, and auto tech is advancing fast enough that something far better will probably be available.

You say that, but there is this happy spot between 1995 and 2005 where cars had great safety features, but the computer integration and unnecessary features weren't out of hand. At least for our kind of usage. Until the EV revolution is mostly complete, I will probably still be rocking a vehicle old enough to vote.

 

[shade]

You say that, but there is this happy spot between 1995 and 2005 where cars had great safety features, but the computer integration and unnecessary features weren't out of hand. At least for our kind of usage. Until the EV revolution is mostly complete, I will probably still be rocking a vehicle old enough to vote.

That's a good point. I have a new Honda Insight full of wonder features (no starting battery, btw) - and I wouldn't want any of those on my truck. The most sophisticated feature on my truck is the traction control system, which is basically just smart management of the ABS. Newer trucks have radar cruise control and crash avoidance stuff I don't want to mess with, and other parts I'm sure aren't serviceable.

Maybe I will keep it long enough to put some Scheel-Mann seats in it, and a lithium starting battery.

 

[jadmt]

We got one of these as a prototype a while back to run in a patrol car that would continually drain the battery and continually needed to be jumped. ( Dodge Charger) battery in the trunk. It flat works. Montana so winters are cold and summer hot. has a key fob to reset if it goes dead and has never failed yet.

 

[shade]

We got one of these as a prototype a while back to run in a patrol car that would continually drain the battery and continually needed to be jumped. ( Dodge Charger) battery in the trunk. It flat works. Montana so winters are cold and summer hot. has a key fob to reset if it goes dead and has never failed yet.

Good to know. Having the battery in the truck may make a big difference in longevity. It'll be interesting to see how long it lasts compared to a lead battery.

 

[john61ct]

GEL are fantastic for longevity if you need sealed lead, as long as the low C-rate and special charge profile doesn't throw you, last much longer than AGM.

I hope Trojan Trillium is the real deal.

Just a Trojan sticker slapped on K2 product.

Their foray into AGM was meh.

 

[jadmt]

Good to know. Having the battery in the truck may make a big difference in longevity. It'll be interesting to see how long it lasts compared to a lead battery.

that I don't know but it was given at a big discount but still expensive is my understanding.

 

[shade]

that I don't know but it was given at a big discount but still expensive is my understanding.

That's the problem with trying to replace lead. If the replacement ends up costing more (in this case, much more) to no real benefit, there's not much reason to use that replacement.