Legal vs illegal radios

Photobug

Well-known member
I have my technician license but took it so long ago can't remember anything.

When looking at purchasing radios I saw something stating "this Bafang is legal" unlike others. What makes some of the radios not legal? If it is extra channels outside of legal use in the U.S., is it illegal to own these other radios or just to operate in those frequencies?
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
IIRC some of the earlier Bafang radios could be modified to transmit outside the Ham bands. AFAIK such a radio itself is not "illegal" (as in, illegal to possess or "contraband") but using any radio for a type of communication that you are not licensed for is a violation of FCC rules. This applies whether you are licensed or not.

I think the FCC or some other agency cracked down on the Chinese radio importers and forced them to modify the radios so they could only transmit in the legal Ham bands, but that is a vague recollection and may or may not be correct.

I suppose if YOU were licensed to transmit on a specific frequency and used a non-type-accepted radio to do that there might be some technical violation but I'm not even sure how that could possibly be enforced. It's not like the radio broadcasts an identification every time you key the mike.
 

Oscar Mike Gulf Yankee

Well-known member
In the U.S., generally, the radio isn't illegal, the operator is. However;

ILLEGAL CB TRANSCEIVER LIST (google.com)

What I saw was that the sale, distribution and marketing of non-compliant radios is unlawful, I didn't see that the possession was.

Transmitters have an electronic fingerprint that can be identified by the FCC. This is not an ID per se, saying John's CB at 1234 Main St. Anytown, but the characteristics of transmissions vary (for many reasons) and can be identified and located pretty quickly.

To learn the basics of locating a transmitter, go to the HAM forums and search for "Fox Hunt".

There are banned devices that support transmissions of a signal in reserved frequencies, 600 Mhz, 25 Khz and other bands. Ie. amplifiers, coils, antenna arrays any device that facilitates the illegal use of any transmitter.

All the major brands, Alinco, Kenwood, Icom, etc. of UHF/VHF transceivers can easily be modified for operation on 11 Meters (CB channels).
If you buy a used radio you need to make sure some pirate didn't modify that rig. I'd suggest checking the seal on any HT or transceiver (transmitter) and if the seal has been broken or opened, avoid that rig.

Any radio certified by the FCC that has any band or frequency modified becomes an illegal radio because it must be recertified for operation.

@Martinjmpr HAM Operators, General class and up (not sure about Tech) can build a radio for HF/VHF, these are "Homebrew" rigs, they are not certified per se, but the builder/operator is responsible for compliance. This use to be a popular aspect of the hobby but I think it has faded away due to many reasons, compliance, degree of difficulty, available parts, etc. I believe you can still buy radio kits, where you assemble according to instructions, the components are certified but not the finished radio. Heathkit was the main kit provider, don't know if they are still around. There were no CB kits that I know of. 73's

I really don't want to mess with any federal agency, IRS, EPA, FAA and FCC hand out big fines and can throw folks in jail. 73's
 
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Photobug

Well-known member
In the U.S., generally, the radio isn't illegal, the operator is. However;

Is the operator or the operation that is illegal? As long as you don't transmit on an illegal frequency you should be good?

I really don't want to mess with any federal agency, IRS, EPA, FAA and FCC hand out big fines and can throw folks in jail. 73's

I'd also like to avoid any fines from any 3 letter organizations. I am wondering how many times a person with a cheap handlheld or vehicle based radio has gotten fined?
 

FordGuy1

Adventurer
Is the operator or the operation that is illegal? As long as you don't transmit on an illegal frequency you should be good?



I'd also like to avoid any fines from any 3 letter organizations. I am wondering how many times a person with a cheap handlheld or vehicle based radio has gotten fined?

Never!
 

Photobug

Well-known member

I plan to use it on my new motorcycle. Even though I am just learning to ride I have fun imagining a James Bond style chase with me in the lead and an FCC cop behind me, trying to issue me a ticket.

I just went to the library to pick up some ARRL books to study. I got to get my wife her Technician and maybe me a General license.
 

krick3tt

Adventurer
I had a HAM radio for a bit before my license and only used it to listen. As long as I was not transmitting I was not doing anything illegal. Had both hand held and hardwired into the vehicle. Just listening is not an illegal action.
I am now licensed.
 

FordGuy1

Adventurer
I plan to use it on my new motorcycle. Even though I am just learning to ride I have fun imagining a James Bond style chase with me in the lead and an FCC cop behind me, trying to issue me a ticket.

I just went to the library to pick up some ARRL books to study. I got to get my wife her Technician and maybe me a General license.
You will never be bothered, and the FCC has not fined any single person for personal use. In off-road racing, we use thousands of ham radios, on hundreds of channels, no one has a license, no one ever bothered.
 

Photobug

Well-known member
You will never be bothered, and the FCC has not fined any single person for personal use. In off-road racing, we use thousands of ham radios, on hundreds of channels, no one has a license, no one ever bothered.

Got it, figured the airways are very widespread, the chances of an FCC operator tracking you down while in a remote location is well..... Remote.

Still I plan on getting my wife her technician license. Maybe she will learn enough to use the frequencies and can teach men how to use them.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Never say never. Those yahoo race radios do get attention from time-to-time because they use itinerant business frequencies, which means just picking frequencies reserved for a pool of business licensees. Turns out they were talking over legitimate users and that gets the attention of the FCC.


The fine was something like $153k for each of the 6 cited violations. Hardly chump change, although I suspect they would have negotiated some sort of resolution. They were a business thumbing their nose. Individuals rarely get in trouble, but it does happen from time-to-time. You'll more likely than not get a warning first and a fine if you persist.

What it boils down to is that if you interfere with a legitimate user and get noticed you'll get a letter or a visit. In the end it's up to the user to report issues and in that case hams will almost always report pirates and have the means to fox hunt. FRS and GMRS and business users will only notice if it's blatant.

What will definitely bring the hammer down is causing interference with police, fire or military users. Never do that. You get a visit from a couple of three-letter agencies.
 
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craig333

Expedition Leader
I think people like Rugged Radios expect most users will using simplex out in the middle of nowhere and unlikely to cause interference even if the frequency is in use. Of course there always exceptions and thats what gets people in trouble.
 

Dendy Jarrett

Expedition Portal Admin
Staff member
Guys - I'm offering to send several of you on vacations from Expedition Portal if you can't keep the language family friendly and stop the personal attacks on each other. I've removed the last to offending posts.
D
 

Shawn686

Observer
Never say never. Those yahoo race radios do get attention from time-to-time because they use itinerant business frequencies, which means just picking frequencies reserved for a pool of business licensees. Turns out they were talking over legitimate users and that gets the attention of the FCC.


The fine was something like $153k for each of the 6 cited violations. Hardly chump change, although I suspect they would have negotiated some sort of resolution. They were a business thumbing their nose. Individuals rarely get in trouble, but it does happen from time-to-time. You'll more likely than not get a warning first and a fine if you persist.

What it boils down to is that if you interfere with a legitimate user and get noticed you'll get a letter or a visit. In the end it's up to the user to report issues and in that case hams will almost always report pirates and have the means to fox hunt. FRS and GMRS and business users will only notice if it's blatant.

What will definitely bring the hammer down is causing interference with police, fire or military users. Never do that. You get a visit from a couple of three-letter agencies.

The answer is still never.

A business being given a fine for marketing violations, which would only happen if they did not stop marketing the non compliant radios, is not an end user being fined. There is still not a single example of a user being fined for the simple use of an "illegal" radio ever.

Dont be a ************ and you will be fine

Shawn
 

Dendy Jarrett

Expedition Portal Admin
Staff member
The answer is still never.

A business being given a fine for marketing violations, which would only happen if they did not stop marketing the non compliant radios, is not an end user being fined. There is still not a single example of a user being fined for the simple use of an "illegal" radio ever.

Dont be a ************ and you will be fine

Shawn
Shawn, I'm not certain what was unclear in my post directly above yours. Perhaps you should revisit the terms of use before posting anything further on these forums.
 

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