Land Rover ideas for Jeeps

[jscherb]

Technically these aren't Land Rover ideas, they're Ineos Granadier ideas.

What's an Ineos Grenadier? Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe, a Monaco-based British billionaire chemical engineer turned financier and industrialist decided to build a replacement for the Defender after Land Rover decided to stop making the original Defender. He's the chairmain of Ineos Group Ltd (a chemical company) so the automotive company he set up to design and market the Grenadier is also called Ineos. More about the Grenadier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ineos_Grenadier

First, a few general Grenadier images:

Designed to be the ultimate overlander/offroader, the Grenadier has a number of innovative cargo-carrying options. In this next image you can see a number of them:

1. Where the Defender might have Alpine windows, the Grenadier has tie-down rails for securing gear on the roof.
2. Below the rear side windows and on the doors just below the windows are airline-style L-tracks.
3. On the bottom of the doors are tie-down points to secure the bottom of whatever might be hanging on the L-tracks on the doors.

A roof rack could of course be mounted but from the factory there are rubber rails on the roof and gear can sit on the rails and be secured with straps to the tie-down rails.

And finally, there's L-track in the floor of the cargo area as well.

I can see how the L-track under the rear side windows could be useful, but not sure what will make sense to mount on the doors. I couldn't find any images from Ineos showing how they think the door tracks might be used, so I did a quick concept drawing showing cargo boxes in both places:

Any ideas what might be useful mounted on the doors?
Rotopax maybe?

Another interesting thing about the Grenadier - Land Rover sued Ineos because the Grenadier looks so much like the Defender. According to Car & Driver:

...that argument was not good enough for the U.K. courts, which [...] dismissed JLR's appeal of a decision by the U.K. Intellectual Property Office that declared that the Defender's shapes were, well, not legally defensible because they were not distinctive enough. The IP Office said the SUV's boxy shape "may be unimportant, or may not even register, with average consumers," even if those in the know can easily spot the similarities.

I wonder what will happen when Ineos tries to market the Grenadier in the U.S.? Remember what happened to the Roxor/Jeep lawsuit?

Anyway, I sure would like to see Jeep get serious about cargo options.

 

[wildorange]

Despite the cost, I'd rather have the new LR defender than Ineos attempted copy.



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[jscherb]

If a net like that in the last post is wanted, it's not expensive or difficult to make. I might start with these Home Depot 15' black ratchet straps, they're only $1.75 each: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-15-ft-x-1-in-Ratchet-Tie-Down-Strap-with-S-Hook-FH0867/312994491

What I'd do to make one: measure the size needed, lay out a grid of the Home Depot straps to those dimensions, staple the straps together wherever they cross, sew the crossed straps together and finally remove the staples. Pretty much any sewing machine could do this job. Let's say your rack could be well covered and secured with a grid of 5 straps x 5 straps, buying 10 of these at Home Depot is less than $20.00. Seems like a very cost effective way to get a very secure ratchet net for your rack.

I've got a few of the Home Depot straps here so I laid out a quick grid...

I decided to sew one of these for my LJ to see how it would work. Since it's for my LJ I posted it in that thread: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/...fit-this-custom-lj.46300/page-62#post-2973659, you'll find step-by-step instructions there.

 

[greg.potter]

Despite the cost, I'd rather have the new LR defender than Ineos attempted copy.



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Well I suppose time will tell if it is an "attempted copy" or an improvement on a time tested classic design. In a couple of years we will all know won't we.

 

[jscherb]

Outside of the U.S., Land Rover people really seem to like aluminum boxes for gear on the roof rack. I've posted lots of photos in this thread which have Defenders with boxes on the rack. A few:

At the SEMA Show two weeks ago I came across a Chinese manufacturer of aluminum boxes looking for distribution in the U.S. This photo is from their web site:

When I saw the boxes at the show I was very impressed with the quality. He told me the wholesale price of his boxes starts at about $30 and asked me for a business card so he could follow up with me after the show. Today I received an email from him, he's wondering if I'm interested in more info. I told him I have connections with several companies that might be interested in adding his boxes to their catalog and asked him to send me more formal info about pricing, minimum order quantities and shipping costs. If those details look good I'll see if he'd be willing to send a few samples over for testing.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Were those Chinesium cases gasketed, Jeff? A range of sizes available would be interesting to know as well.

 

[jscherb]

Were those Chinesium cases gasketed, Jeff? A range of sizes available would be interesting to know as well.

Yes, the samples I saw at SEMA had a very nice seal. I'll post some additional photos in a few minutes and the seal doesn't seem to be in all the boxes in the photos, not sure why. In the photos I'm about to post, the box in the right hand side of the light duty boxes photo shows the seal.

 

[jscherb]

This morning's email contained pricing on the aluminum cargo boxes I posted about yesterday. The company offers two variants - "light duty" boxes and "heavy duty" boxes. The thickness of the aluminum and the construction of both appear the same but the heavy duty boxes have castings at the top corners to hold stacked boxes on top.

Light duty:

Heavy duty:

These are the standard light duty sizes - I added rows in red to convert the dimensions from mm to inches:

And the heavy duty sizes:

I did some calculations based on the wholesale price of the 65L light box and the MOQ (minimum order quantity) listed in the spreadsheet. I tried to take into account shipping from China (MOQ = a 40' container), margin for the importer and the retailer, import duty, etc. and the 65L box would have to retail for about $190 to be profitable, assuming the importer believed they could sell a container load of them.

For comparison, a similar 67-liter box from AluBox retails for $335. A similar box from Zarges is about the same price. The AulBox and Zarges boxes include the corner castings so they're more like the heavy duty boxes than the light one I'm using for this example. The Chinese HD boxes are about $12 more at wholesale price than the light duty boxes, so my $190 retail price estimate includes the heavy duty corners.

That's still a good price compared to the Zarges and AluBox products, but is there a company that thinks they can sell 1600 of them? That's a pretty large volume if the company is a typical smaller Jeep accessories company so 1600 might be too much for most Jeep/overlanding companies to consider.

I'm trying to find out if the company will accept an MOQ less than a full 40' container and what shipping might be for a less-than-container shipment.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Thanks Jeff.

The MOQ should be amortized over a wide range of customers, not just Jeep nuts. And at the lower price point, overlanding is not the only application for them. IMO.

 

[jscherb]

Thanks Jeff.

The MOQ should be amortized over a wide range of customers, not just Jeep nuts. And at the lower price point, overlanding is not the only application for them. IMO.

Agreed. The companies I have relationships with are smaller companies (except for MORryde, which does it's own manufacturing), and these small companies only serve the Jeep market, so they can't naturally take advantage of the wider market without new investment in marketing. But if there is a company that's interested in bringing over a container of these I'll be happy to introduce them to the contact at the Chinese company.

 

[jscherb]

Speaking of aluminum boxes, another type that seems very common with the Defender crowd are these larger diamondplate boxes - I posted these photos earliner in the thread:

While doing some price comparisons on the Chinese boxes in my last post, I came across several of the above style (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322561255318):

And this (https://www.njaluminiumlinings.com/roof-box-for-land-rover.html):

We do see aluminum boxes like the Chinese ones in my previous post from time to time over here (from Zarges and Alubox, among others), but I don't think I've ever seen a larger diamondplate box with a sloped cover like the ones above on a Jeep.

I wonder why they haven't caught on over here when they seem to be so popular with Defender people outside of this country?

 

[jscherb]

Found this on fourby.co.uk - running hot water for a Land Rover. Would be a really nice addition to a camping/overland vehicle. Kit includes a heat exchanger, a pump, hoses, brackets and a switch.

Here's what the site says about it:

Apparently the kit is for Land Rovers with 300tdi engines, but other than the brackets I don't see why it couldn't be adapted to a Jeep. More info here: https://fourby.co.uk/epages/950004277.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950004277/Products/SYS001

I did a little searching and found a similar small heat exchanger on Amazon. Probably something like this could be the basis for a Wrangler hot water system:


Might be an interesting project to experiment with.

 

[JDaPP]

Synergy made a system like that called the sit shower shave kit (https://www.4wheelspecialtiesunlimited.com/product/sit-shower-shave-kit-synergy-mfg). I have it on my jeep and it works great but I don't think they make it anymore.
If someone was to do a new kit I would add brackets for installation, preformed coolant hose for the jeep coolant takeoff, and a mixer valve to control temperature

 

[jscherb]

Synergy made a system like that called the sit shower shave kit (https://www.4wheelspecialtiesunlimited.com/product/sit-shower-shave-kit-synergy-mfg). I have it on my jeep and it works great but I don't think they make it anymore.
If someone was to do a new kit I would add brackets for installation, preformed coolant hose for the jeep coolant takeoff, and a mixer valve to control temperature

How well does the heat exchanger work? If you draw the water from a source that isn't very warm is the output water warm enough? Does the heat exchange happen as fast as the pump moves water through the exchanger?

 

[JDaPP]

I have not used it with very cold water. Probably about 20 degrees colder than tap water cold. It does warm as fast as it moves through but the key is to have a warmed up engine. With a warmed up engine it gets a little hotter than comfortable for me. The real issue is if you stop the shower and the water sits in the exchanger, it becomes scalding. I usually use it to put water in bottles and then use the bottles to wash and shower (will mix it with cold water to get temp right). There are a couple of companies that make mixing valves, I just have not gotten around to updating it.