INEOS Grenadier

[Highlander]

And for $65k, you get 1500lbs more payload in a Sprinter, not to mention standing room inside. One more tick against the Grenadier.

Sure.
But still, very expansive for a naked van assembled in the US. The Ford awd is at least 15K cheaper.
My assumption is that they, the dealers, know why the young people are buying them, specifically the 4x4 ones, and put huge price tugs on them.
The normal delivery / fleet vans with 2WD are quite affordable especially the gas powered ones.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Here is some information from a while back; may have been shared elsewhere in the thread but I didn't see it. Scott Brady got a chance to speak with the folks at Ineos. It's a good listen; Scott knows this industry in and out and has some great observations:

The Overland Journal Podcast | Discussing the Grenadier with Greg Clark, VP of Ineos Automotive

Scott Brady and Matt Scott discuss the merits of the new Grenadier, and interview Greg Clark, VP of Ineos Automotive Americas about the release of this exciting new overland model.

share.transistor.fm

Of note, he mentioned no Diesel option for North America. I was wondering about that and how they would get around the ULSD problem in North America as compared to RTW. For anyone who is not aware, Diesels in North America and most of Europe require Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel fuel. The rest of the world uses "normal" diesel fuel, which has a ton of sulphur in it. Sulphur serves an important function in diesel fuel (lubricity, I think) but also caused a lot of emissions issues. Running high-sulfur diesel in an ULSD-specc'd vehicle is no bueno, as it will get clogged up and die fairly rapidly -- so you can't go buy a modern diesel in North America and expect to just drive it around the world the way you could 15+ years ago. Gren's solution is....to not sell one.

JLR took a different approach with the Defender - apparently the Diesel defender needs a DEF/AdBlue system in all markets EXCEPT for in South Africa, where one can be had that will run on standard diesel fuel.

 

[beanmachine]

They've sourced a modern BMW diesel. It will likely require ULSD and also DEF, I would bet on it if I had the money. Now, have they somehow gotten around the emissions systems and will deliver a non SCR/DPF, high sulfur diesel compatible vehicle if you buy one in Africa? Otherwise, I don't see they're goal of marketing towards the NGO's to be that reasonable. Unless they're planning on only offering the gas version there.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

They've sourced a modern BMW diesel. It will likely require ULSD and also DEF, I would bet on it if I had the money. Now, have they somehow gotten around the emissions systems and will deliver a non SCR/DPF, high sulfur diesel compatible vehicle if you buy one in Africa? Otherwise, I don't see they're goal of marketing towards the NGO's to be that reasonable. Unless they're planning on only offering the gas version there.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

I'm wondering the exact same thing. My thinking is that if JLR was able to do the non-DEF, non-emissions diesel for their South African spec New Defender, which has the same diesel as the Euro-spec one -- the Ingenium, just without the emissions stuff -- that would suggest that Ineos can do the same thing. The fact that JLR can sell the Ingenium to run on high sulphur diesel suggests that the emissions stuff is mostly add-ons, as opposed to being critical to the function of the vehicle. I suspect this is also true of the BMWs -- an add on, as opposed to something foundational to the engine that cannot be changed/removed.

So, just as Ineos has "customized" the BMW engine by having a plug in the oil sump, perhaps they have also "customized" the emissions controls out for parts of the world where that is not necessary (thus enabling the appeal to fleet buyers).

Then again, not all fleet buyers are operating in the developing world -- I tend to see the Grenadier and think "United Nations", but it might also be a super useful utility vehicle for European fleets, which would need to have the Euro 5 (maybe even euro 6?) emissions controls. Perhaps they will do both?

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Episode 10 of Building the Grenadier premiered today:


Of note - Looks like the transmission is properly sorted, allowing for automatic most of the time but a lot of manual control too (Many do these days, but this is the first I've seen the ability to lock the transmission into a gear being 100% confirmed for the Grenadier). And if that's not enough they also have Hill Descent Control. The lack of a manual was a concern for some, but I've always found Autos provide for a lot more mechanical sympathy off-road; the biggest issue with autos is on hill decent but it looks like they've got that taken care of. The other argument against Autos is that if they fail you can't bump start, but modern Autos are incredibly reliable and, as long as they manage the temperatures, there's no reason to fear the reliability of the auto in the Grenadier.

The Global Experience tour -- where folks can get some hands-on experience with the Gren -- is hitting quite a few places. On the list is UK, USA, Germany, the rest of Europe, Sub-saharan Africa, the Middle East, and Australia. The events have started in the UK and Germany, but the diversity of events underscores Ineos's previous commitment to this being a global platform.

Interior visibility is supposedly excellent from the Driver's seat.

Mark Evans gets behind the wheel and his first statement is "Feels like your gliding" off road -- that may be a planted line, but other guests have said the same thing, so I think it's legit. And I have some insight into this experience in a comparative way and how surprising "smooth" off road can be; I remember going from a Jeep Sport to a Jeep Rubicon, and it just so happened that I was on the same road about a week apart in both vehicles. In the Rubicon I was amazed that I didn't have to pull over to take a drink from a bottle -- the Sport was so choppy on the washboard due to the poorer quality suspension components that it was impossible to take a sip without spilling. In the Rubicon, I could put a cup of tea and a saucer on the dash and would only see ripples in the cup -- so, I get what he means when he says "feels like your gliding" off road - a proper suspension setup allows for that, and it's a wonderful experience that not everyone gets to have.

The other comment that jumped out to me is that it's quiet inside and folks can have normal conversations. Jeep or classic Defender owners will know that cabin noise can get very tiring after a long day, and it's nice to be able to chat with your travelling companions.

These vids are very much a case of the barber telling me I need a haircut, but I have to say I give full props to Ineos for this transparent approach to this vehicle, and with each new video I'm getting more and more excited to own one. I think this Grenadier will be an incredibly good Overland travel platform for a lot of folks who like the 4x4 wagon format.

 

[Mattlodi]

I received an invitation for the 2B prototype tour, it will be the 9th of October at the Carraro HQ (the axles supplier). I’ve booked the test ride.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I received an invitation for the 2B prototype tour, it will be the 9th of October at the Carraro HQ (the axles supplier). I’ve booked the test ride.

Fantastic - I hope you get to take lots of pics, and I'd be very interested to hear your impressions when it's done!

Whereabouts in the world are you located? I've not heard of any announced Stateside or in Canada.

 

[Mattlodi]

Fantastic - I hope you get to take lots of pics, and I'd be very interested to hear your impressions when it's done!

Whereabouts in the world are you located? I've not heard of any announced Stateside or in Canada.

I’ll definitely do it.

I live in Italy, from what I’ve seen here they’re presenting the car in some 4x4 fairs in Germany, France and Italy in addition to this “2B Tour”. I think they’ll certainly come tu US/Canada later this year since they’ll start selling it in 2022.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Cheers @Mattlodi, I am looking forward to your test drive (Probably not as much as you are, but it's close )

 

[MarcusBrody]

Do we have any idea on pricing yet? I got an email today saying that the reservation window for folks on their mailing list is opening in a week (or at least for people who got on the mailing list when I did, might be open already for some) and they'll be taking $450 refundable deposits to claim a spot to place an actual order in early 2022. I would consider at least putting in a deposit, but feel slightly strange not having any idea what range this is going to fall in. If it's high, there are other vehicles I might consider first.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Do we have any idea on pricing yet? I got an email today saying that the reservation window for folks on their mailing list is opening in a week (or at least for people who got on the mailing list when I did, might be open already for some) and they'll be taking $450 refundable deposits to claim a spot to place an actual order in early 2022. I would consider at least putting in a deposit, but feel slightly strange not having any idea what range this is going to fall in. If it's high, there are other vehicles I might consider first.

Ineos has been consistently saying 45-50k Euro; 45k for the commercial and 50k for the retail version. I suspect they'll get within $5k of that figure. Of course the options could make it far more expensive. I've seen this in interviews and I've been told it's been commented on Instagram by Ineos corporate as the price, so I think it's about as solid as an idea as we'll get at this stage.

Edit: @MarcusBrody, any chance you can let me know where you are geographically? I jumped into my e-mail all excited but it looks like I don't yet have the e-mail. I wonder if this means they are rolling out reservations geographically (I'm in Canada); It could be time-bound but I think I've been on the list since the list existed - perhaps I wasn't as early as I thought!

Edit 2: I just got the e-mail!

 

[MarcusBrody]

Ineos has been consistently saying 45-50k Euro; 45k for the commercial and 50k for the retail version. I suspect they'll get within $5k of that figure. Of course the options could make it far more expensive. I've seen this in interviews and I've been told it's been commented on Instagram by Ineos corporate as the price, so I think it's about as solid as an idea as we'll get at this stage.

Edit: @MarcusBrody, any chance you can let me know where you are geographically? I jumped into my e-mail all excited but it looks like I don't yet have the e-mail. I wonder if this means they are rolling out reservations geographically (I'm in Canada); It could be time-bound but I think I've been on the list since the list existed - perhaps I wasn't as early as I thought!

Thanks! That would be a pretty good pricepoint given current market conditions, but it also depends on the North American price conversion. I am also interested in the Rivian/Lightning (which maybe seems a bit odd given what the Grenadier is offering, but I'm balancing different uses) and if it gets near the R1T pricing, that becomes a harder sell for me.

I'm in the US. Here's what the email said:

30th September Reservations Open

Hello Tim, Some good news: your reservation window is finally opening up. And because you’ve been following the journey so closely, your window is two weeks before the general public’s. So mark it down: Thursday September 30th. We’ll send you a unique code on the day, which you’ll need to access the reservation form on the official Grenadier website.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Thanks! That would be a pretty good pricepoint given current market conditions, but it also depends on the North American price conversion. I am also interested in the Rivian/Lightning (which maybe seems a bit odd given what the Grenadier is offering, but I'm balancing different uses) and if it gets near the R1T pricing, that becomes a harder sell for me.

I'm in the US. Here's what the email said:

30th September Reservations Open

Hello Tim, Some good news: your reservation window is finally opening up. And because you’ve been following the journey so closely, your window is two weeks before the general public’s. So mark it down: Thursday September 30th. We’ll send you a unique code on the day, which you’ll need to access the reservation form on the official Grenadier website.

Thanks! I just got the e-mail myself. Super exciting!

 

[MarcusBrody]

Thanks! I just got the e-mail myself. Super exciting!

Ha as I had this open, I was reading a thread on Defender2.net with someone discussing the (potentially) different markets for the Grenadier/Rivian and realized that unless there are two ChasingOurTrunks on the internet, I was reading the comments of the same person across multiple sites.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Ha as I had this open, I was reading a thread on Defender2.net with someone discussing the (potentially) different markets for the Grenadier/Rivian and realized that unless there are two ChasingOurTrunks on the internet, I was reading the comments of the same person across multiple sites.

Ha! Yeah my "Overland" accounts (Defender2.net, here, and OverlandBound) all use the same screen name. There's no "GrenadierFans.net" yet that I've found so I sort of sussed out where the best info was, and Defender2.net has some great stuff. For my needs I was comparing the new Defender to the Gren -- they both achieve a very similar outcome (1 ton payload wagon 4x4), but they do it in very different ways -- Defender relies on the latest and greatest, where as the Gren relies on the best version of the tried-and-true. I know which one I can fix the easiest so that has greatly informed my choice. After a year+ of evaluating the Defender, I'd love one as a Daily Driver, but it's firmly in second place compared to the Grenadier for me.