I'm winch dumb, can you help me?

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I would only uses a hawse with synthetic line. Tool grade aluminium or stainless. I do use steel wire though and when I do I swap to a roller fairlead. I use string cored mild steel wire rope for extracting timber and recovery of plant

Lots of Warn winches used to come with steel ( cast or forged maybe? ) hawses back in the day for use with steel rope. It wasn't too bad. I've seen lots of them 40+ years old and still functional.
I'm sure they have drawbacks, but I don't think it is a super critical option. They are simple. No moving parts to fail. They are also very compact.

For me I use synthetic line and an aluminum hawse on all my rigs. I honestly haven't noticed a huge difference in the quality of the aluminum being an issue. The one on my flat fender is almost a decade old and was $20 or so on Amazon or Ebay. No issues. I have used that winch A LOT over the years.

I try not to get too stuck on buying a name. There are lots of good decent products out there that likely come out a different door of the same factory. I enjoy testing and evaluating things. I honestly don't find that much junk out there anymore. I think a lot of people buy the name as a status thing, not because the product really works better honestly. It might make them 'feel' a little better. It might be a HAIR more safe. I find most people RARELY actually use their recovery gear.....they don't even practice with it. They end up in really bad situations and then have to figure it all out on the fly. I just don't get that.....
 

Nonimouse

Cynical old bastard
We are regulated when it comes to many things. When it comes to certifications, licensing and registering things they do have certain meanings and there are certain expectations.

BUT when it comes to this topic, for me anyway, if they are certified what is the standard they have met? Even if the certifications are not based on any recognized "power that be" that is fine but they still should have some sort syllabus, outline, description of what they offer and why it is relevant.

I am not trying to beat anybody down I am just looking for information.

It was interesting reading Frenchies post. The information is out there but the requirement for each different country is hugely varied. Much like vehicle modifications or vehicles safety testing.
I was in the Sierra Nevada in Spain, earlier this year. I was driving a locally registered Range Rover Classic, belonging to a friend who lives part of the year in the area. Essentially you can drive anywhere that isn't marked private. Thousands of kilometres of trails, as well as river beds. But if the vehicle you are driving is modified in any way and not registered with the local ITB test centre as having approved mods, it will be impounded by the Guardia Civil (basically the police, but part of the armed forces). By mods, I mean different tyre size from standard, non standard bumpers etc. Big fines to get it back.
Got to Romania or Hungary - pretty much anything goes except driving whilst blind drunk, even then don't kill anyone and you're ok
 

Nonimouse

Cynical old bastard
Lots of Warn winches used to come with steel ( cast or forged maybe? ) hawses back in the day for use with steel rope. It wasn't too bad. I've seen lots of them 40+ years old and still functional.
I'm sure they have drawbacks, but I don't think it is a super critical option. They are simple. No moving parts to fail. They are also very compact.

For me I use synthetic line and an aluminum hawse on all my rigs. I honestly haven't noticed a huge difference in the quality of the aluminum being an issue. The one on my flat fender is almost a decade old and was $20 or so on Amazon or Ebay. No issues. I have used that winch A LOT over the years.

I try not to get too stuck on buying a name. There are lots of good decent products out there that likely come out a different door of the same factory. I enjoy testing and evaluating things. I honestly don't find that much junk out there anymore. I think a lot of people buy the name as a status thing, not because the product really works better honestly. It might make them 'feel' a little better. It might be a HAIR more safe. I find most people RARELY actually use their recovery gear.....they don't even practice with it. They end up in really bad situations and then have to figure it all out on the fly. I just don't get that.....
You are definitely singing from the same hymn sheet as me (one of the reasons I enjoyed your flat fender build, I expect)

I test a lot of stuff - mainly for magazine articles but also because I train people how to safely enjoy overland travel. So I recommend kit, mods etc. Most of the folk I deal with are doing global travel, so stuff needs to last, be easy to fix etc. The prices difference for essentially the same stuff, or the cost of stuff you could actually make, or buy at the local DIY store is appalling. I don't know if you have the same problems in the US, but here in Europe 80% of the market is overpriced, poorly made junk.

I mentioned tool grade aluminium for my personal hawse because of the stuff that I work with or around. I live in the middle of a large wetland area, drained about 1000 years or so by the local abbey (Glastonbury). It's covered in Acidic peat, but with belts of fine silt clay. This plays havoc with soft aluminium that some cheaper hawse are made from... Did you know that cast iron Hawse are called 'Mules'...no idea why. Same as the safety catch on a hook is called a 'mouse'...
 

MOguy

Explorer
It was interesting reading Frenchies post. The information is out there but the requirement for each different country is hugely varied. Much like vehicle modifications or vehicles safety testing.
I was in the Sierra Nevada in Spain, earlier this year. I was driving a locally registered Range Rover Classic, belonging to a friend who lives part of the year in the area. Essentially you can drive anywhere that isn't marked private. Thousands of kilometres of trails, as well as river beds. But if the vehicle you are driving is modified in any way and not registered with the local ITB test centre as having approved mods, it will be impounded by the Guardia Civil (basically the police, but part of the armed forces). By mods, I mean different tyre size from standard, non standard bumpers etc. Big fines to get it back.
Got to Romania or Hungary - pretty much anything goes except driving whilst blind drunk, even then don't kill anyone and you're ok

I am not worried about the countries requirements. I am interested in i4wdta requirements and what standards they require you to meet of order to be certified by i4wdta and why you would seek out somebody certification from iw4dta versus another orgnization.

Accrding to thier web page this is what is required:
How do I become an I4WDTA® certified Trainer?



Please follow these steps:
    • Print and complete the Application;
    • Provide a copy of your First-Aid certificate or other relevant documents;
    • Your resume;
    • Your sample curriculum for a one-day 4-wheel drive class.
  • To be a member of the I4WDTA®, the Candidate Trainer must have extensive and considerable 4WD experience and knowledge with at least 3 years of verifiable teaching experience, preferably to adults. In addition, the Candidate Trainer must have a valid driver license, preferably for vehicles of different classifications, and basic First Aid/CPR certification or greater.


    If you are 21 years of age or older and meet these requirements, send us your application form and an I4WDTA® Certified Trainer nearby will get in touch with you to coordinate your next steps.
 
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Nonimouse

Cynical old bastard
I am not worried about the countries requirements. I am interested in iw4dta requirements and what standards they require you to meet of order to be certified by iw4dta and why you would seek out somebody certification from iw4dta versus another orgnization.
I think you need to speak to them directly. They appear to be a small business capitalising on the need for suitable training. Like thousands of small businesses around the globe. Some of their claims appear to be a bit overstated, but it's undeniable that they have a skill set. When it comes down to it, driving off tarmac is very simple, but requires a rare commodity, common sense. Nothing you need to learn is rocket science, but if you haven't the ability to absorb common sense, you are never going to be safe. ...
 

MOguy

Explorer
I think you need to speak to them directly. They appear to be a small business capitalising on the need for suitable training. Like thousands of small businesses around the globe. Some of their claims appear to be a bit overstated, but it's undeniable that they have a skill set. When it comes down to it, driving off tarmac is very simple, but requires a rare commodity, common sense. Nothing you need to learn is rocket science, but if you haven't the ability to absorb common sense, you are never going to be safe. ...


I have emailed them and messaged Frenchie (who appears to be involved with he organization). I am waiting for their response. When I search them on the web I find a website, articles about their master trainer of the year but nothing about the training itself. I am trying to find out what I can but not getting very far.

When I search off road certification I find this:

I am don't think that i4wdt is what I am think it is.

I found this, this is more inline what I am looking for but it is directed towards 4wheelers.
 
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Nonimouse

Cynical old bastard
I have emailed them and messaged Frenchie (who appears to be involved with he organization). I am waiting for their response. When I search them on the web I find a website, articles about their master trainer of the year but nothing about the training itself. I am trying to find out what I can but not getting very far.

When I search off road certification I find this:
Try varying your search

'Winch training'
'Recovery Training'
'Training in the use of a High Lift Jack'
'Off Tarmac Driving'

Don't look for the obvious
 

JMacs

Observer
Going back to the original thoughts for this post, :)....

I have been reading what I can going between steel cable and synthetic. Someone mentioned that the synthetic can hold water and then can freeze. Seems like that would be a little problematic in winter. Has anyone had this issue? Or it just someone’s thought on what might happen?
 

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