I Still Like Pushrods, They're Still Viable

nicholastanguma

Los Angeles, San Francisco
Fair warning: long post, maybe not for the faint of heart.

I'm a luddite, but not an unreasonable one. You can like what you like, that's cool with me...but it's not okay for you to try forcing your likes to be my likes, too. We can disagree agreeably. I think electric everything is blind ideology, you think carburetors are for neanderthals--we can still be 100 percent courteous to each other.

Technology always progresses, and therefore marketing must always progress commensurately. Or, when not commensurate in their progress, sometimes the tech or the market will helpfully nudge along whomever is being slow at the time.

I'm heavily involved in the vintage air cooled auto and moto cultures, old VWs and Porsches and Hondas and NSUs and Fiats and Triumphs and all of it, all the air cooled carbed stuff makes me happy all day long (vintage air cooled cars and bikes are a RELIGION here in California). So I still like pushrod engines. I don't dislike overhead cam engines at all, I like 'em just as much as pushies, it's just that in the vintage air cooled world pushrod tech tends to be more prevalent than overhead cam tech. Way more Porsche 914s out there than NSU TTs, for instance. Admittedly, in the moto segment the prevalence of vintage Japanese powerplants makes things a pretty even split, you can just as easily find an old Honda CG or BMW airhead as an old Honda CB or Suzuki Bandit.

Here in the real world, where there exist stoplights, stop signs, police enforcement, speed limits, pedestrians, speed bumps, pot holes, school zones, and just general consideration for other road users traveling at their own paces...having to rev an engine way up high to get into my power curve simply doesn't make sense. The real world is not a race track.

Marketing is sexy when the copy reads "redlines at 15,000 rpm" and "makes 200 hp at only 600cc size" and other such sexiness (all of which I do appreciate, as long as the engine is carbed and air cooled), but if you're not a professional racer on a dedicated race track this marketing copy and this technology are just jewelry.

A hot rodded pushrod boxer four connected to a five or six speed transaxle is more real world usable torque and horsepower than any sane motorist can use without maiming or killing himself or others on the road or trail. Many scoff that a hot rod pushrod boxer in a VW or Porsche is "only making 200hp," but with five or six gears to play with on trails and roads that aren't dedicated racing courses that 200hp is real world fun as long as the sun is shining.

A hot rodded Sportster or Bonneville mated to a five or six speed transmission is exactly the same.

Restomodding old autos and motos with weight reduction and frame bracing and modern suspension and modern carburetion and modern gearboxes and other such upgrades is wonderfully emotionally satisfying, while keeping the pushrod engine's lower-hp-but-more-useable-torque powerband in place for real world fun. Where are you safely going to rev over 9000rpm on public trails and streets?

Your CRF450 or 350Z makes way more peak hp than a restomodded Honda CG250 or VW Beetle, but you're not actually a pro racer and your vehicle's peak hp output doesn't actually make you a sexy beast. Your machine is not you and you are not your machine--you are still fat or bald or ugly or stupid or dull or poor or whatever no matter how sexy your machine is. A poser with a Kawasaki H2 is just as cringeworthy as a poser with a straight piped Harley-Davidson.

So I continually find myself burrowing deeper and deeper into the vintage pushrod lair. I very very very much enjoy track days! But I do not live on the track, either motocross or autocross.

Again, I absolutely endorse and enjoy overhead cam engines, especially of the air cooled variety, it's just that aside from vintage Japanese motorbikes, the use of pushrod tech is more prevalent in the air cooled world.

Anyone else find they still enjoy hot rodded old pushrod engines for real world fun? Anyone else found endless emotional satisfaction in restomodding something obsolete into something actually usable for real world trails and roads?

Back in the days when air cooled engines were still being mass produced in automobiles, most vehicles, auto and moto alike, had three or four speed transmissions. But today transmission technology allows us to use 5 or 6 speed gearboxes in any ratios we want, so the fact an air cooled pushrod engine can't usually rev to 9000 or higher rpm is no longer relevant.

Here's a terrific example.

This outlaw VW Bug is sporting a naturally aspirated 1776cc VW Type 1 engine. A very hotly built Type 1 dedicated to racing, but yes, naturally aspirated nonetheless. It runs 10.9 sec at 119mph in the quarter mile.

How? That hot little air cooled engine is mated to a Hewland 6 spd sequential transaxle.


 

Grassland

Well-known member
GM made modern pushrod engines. They even had cam phasing on later ones iirc.
Not the same thing as an old school air cooled pushrod motor but the concept isn't dead.
Ford's new Godzilla 7.3 gas V8 is pushrod. Sometimes the solution really is just more displacement.
 

85_Ranger4x4

Well-known member
GM made modern pushrod engines. They even had cam phasing on later ones iirc.
Not the same thing as an old school air cooled pushrod motor but the concept isn't dead.
Ford's new Godzilla 7.3 gas V8 is pushrod. Sometimes the solution really is just more displacement.

Ram's Hemi engines are still pushrod too. Really in NA truck land it is just Ford that is OHC.

My wife is getting a 4cyl Bronco, my next truck will either be a 'zilla or a Hemi. Personally I am looking forward to getting rid of the bulk involved with OHC V engines.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Keep up the fight, Don Quixano.

You're right about a lot of but seems to me what makes luddites luddites isn't specifically this technology or that but the pervasive evolution of society and the demands it places upon itself, real or perceived. IOW, the role simple air cooled vehicles played doesn't exist in the same way anymore. They were the right solution to the problems at the time but the problems changed such that they aren't useful in a normal way. Now maybe that's not something you or I think needed to happen but the reality is society *thinks* the world is different and so it is.
 

nicholastanguma

Los Angeles, San Francisco
IOW, the role simple air cooled vehicles played doesn't exist in the same way anymore. They were the right solution to the problems at the time but the problems changed such that they aren't useful in a normal way.

I don't disagree. Air cooled engine vehicles are toys these days, and only an extremely few folks actually daily drive such vintage machines. California's problems are manifold, and of those manifold problems a large percentage are headquartered in my home city of Los Angeles. However, something very very very positive I can say about both California and LA is that vintage air cooled autos and motos are a cult ideology here, not just a culture, a freakin RELIGION. So as an air cooled luddite at least I'm living in the right place ...
:D


...despite the insanity of the virtue signalling politicking that is the other religion here.
:bluduh
 
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billiebob

Well-known member
Overhead Cam reduces reciprocating weight allowing higher RPMs. In a truck, off road, overland, expedition vehicle low RPMs are ideal for torque and tractability. While it is debatable which one costs less to manufacture, maintain, tune, there are zero power advantages to overhead cam in the lower RPM range.

Personally I'm a fan of old school and hate technology. Give me pushrods a carb and a clutch any day.
 

billiebob

Well-known member
My first overhead cam experience, a Honda CB 175, I hated that 10,500rpm redline.... on a 10 cubic inch engine.

DSC_0005__57947.1536935227.1280.1280.JPG
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
175 you say?

I had CL175 Scrambler for a bit a few years ago.
Picked it up as a non-runner for a few hundred bucks.
Cleaned it up, threw a couple hundred bucks at it, and had it running well.

Then sold it for a few thousand ;)

Was a nice little bike, but with the silly designed exhaust ANY sort of carb adjustments or work was a pain.
Hell, you couldn't even service the air filters without removing the exhaust!

48077101102_257a6f4790_h.jpg
 

billiebob

Well-known member
175 you say?

I had CL175 Scrambler for a bit a few years ago.
Picked it up as a non-runner for a few hundred bucks.
Cleaned it up, threw a couple hundred bucks at it, and had it running well.

Then sold it for a few thousand ;)

Was a nice little bike, but with the silly designed exhaust ANY sort of carb adjustments or work was a pain.
Hell, you couldn't even service the air filters without removing the exhaust!

48077101102_257a6f4790_h.jpg
I loved the Honda Scramblers. And there is no motoring project more affordable than a bike. That ^^^ 175 is gorgeous.
I think the Scramblers, CLs had a single carb and more realistic redline.
Are those straight pipes ?
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
Straight pipes with inserts/baffles.

OEM muffs were rotted out, and are unobtanium.
Unless you can score an ebay set, for big $$

The CL175 had dual carbs. Royal pain to tune, but once done right that motor absolutely sang. :cool:
 

gatorgrizz27

Well-known member
I’m a big fan of the air cooled Ducati engines, they are overhead cam with rockers that close the valves as well as open them, but otherwise more “old school”. 90 degree V-twin that balances well, and the combination of low RPM torque as well as high RPM hp is magical. You can lug it, short shift it, and cruise around, and then just twist the throttle and have an immediate surge that doesn’t run out of steam as soon as things are getting interesting.

I’m not a fan of the new 2.X L engines they are sticking in full sized vehicles, but modern tech isn’t all bad. I have a 1995 Range Rover, 4.2L V8, makes 200 hp. Wife has a 2008 Range Rover, 4.2L V8, makes 400 hp...
 

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