Help with chassis and box selection...considering Excap / Steyr / Krug / Bliss for US based XV

infinitum

New member
Hello!

I lived in a Eurovan-based RV for several years and took it all over the US and Canada. It made it through Canada and the Alaska Highway while still getting around fine through downtown LA. Unfortunately it was burnt down in storage years ago, but ever since I have been reading this forum and looking at options for a *real* expedition vehicle. There is a lot to take in, so my knowledge is severely lacking. I also attended Overland Expo a few weeks ago and it was good to be able to see various vehicles and builds in person and talk to some experienced people.

The tough part for me has been chassis selection since I live in the US. My wants are:
- Cab over chassis to save length
- No DEF/modern diesel emissions. This could mean older diesel or could mean gas
- Enough power to cruise at 65-70 on the highway and drive up long hills without feeling like I'm going to roll back
- Comfortable, quiet-ish interior with some modern conveniences (can be retrofitted)
- Seats at least 4 (2 adults and 2 kids) whether in crew cab or extended cab format

It seemed like I had to compromise on at least one of these with any typical US chassis. The 2 front runners were: new Ford F550 with 7.3L Godzilla gas engine & new gas Isuzu NPR.

F550:
- had 5-6 feet of completely wasted hood space
- gas which can be found anywhere but the mileage goes down immensely, necessitating lots of extra fuel tanks and even then...
- diesel would have plenty of power and be the most highway friendly of any chassis, but the gas version seems just adequate due to having half the torque
- best interior of any chassis in Lariat trim
- seats 4. but crew cab adds more unnecessary length. extended cab is better, but still only a foot shorter

NPR:
- cab over with nice big panoramic windshield, saves TONS of length
- an even less powerful engine that I suspect would be annoying
- commercial truck interior. not as hideous as a FLMTV but nothing like the Ford
- can only seat 4 in crew cab form, which is unnecessarily gigantic and makes the whole vehicle look awkward

Neither of these were going to work. Then I stumbled across Excap (excap.de) and their Steyr 12M18:

-cab over, panoramic windshield, saves lots of length
- 30 year old diesel. Take it anywhere without worries about fuel. Better fuel mileage than if it was gas, so not as many tanks are necessary
- engine HP is low but torque is good. Excap apparently mods these to make them a bit better with 230 HP and I think 800+ lb/ft torque. My old Eurovan RV, which would weigh half as much as this, had 200 HP and was pretty anemic, but it had 200 TQ, not 800. I have never driven a vehicle with such a large HP/TQ spread so I am not sure how it would feel.
- in stock form, the Steyr/FLMTV has the worst interior of them all, but Excap works their magic on it and after they're done I think it becomes the best interior. I hope there is a lot of sound insulation though...I bet the diesel is very loud and I would like to be able to comfortably talk with my passengers while driving on a flat highway.
-seats 4 using an extended cab without all the extra doors and space.

The only issue here is that these are made in Germany. But because the chassis is 30 years old, I believe they can be imported easily. Am I right? I have heard some people mention bringing these foreign vehicles in through Halifax first and driving them into the US. Why is this? What if for some reason I cannot do it the Halifax way due to issues with Canada...am I done?

So then the vehicle would need a box and someone to mount the box. I am mainly considering Bliss and Krug. I am just starting the process of reaching out to them, so I do not have pricing yet, but I assume Krug will be less expensive than Bliss. I have heard good things about Krug's quality and it seems like it may be equivalent to Bliss while being priced much lower? Any thoughts here? We would like as many features as a nice GXV. We do not need an onboard vacuum outlet and wine cabinet etc like an Earthroamer. We'd like internal storage (probably in a garage under the bed) for some E-bikes. Besides that, very basic. Bliss is opening a US facility, so they would be able to mount the box whether it is made in Europe and shipped or in the US. I am not sure who would mount the box if I go with Krug? I suppose we could drive the vehicle from Germany to Ukraine and THEN import it to the US. I have also heard some good things about Total Composites. I believe one of the boxes I visited at Overland Expo was theirs. This box, though, was very basic and spartan. Which is fine but not right for me at this time. I think they are a fully custom solution so maybe this is just a lower end box and they can do higher end as well.

I think there are some people on here in the US that imported an Excap, and I think there is at least one Excap with a Krug box. If anyone fitting that description is feeling altruistic, please send me a PM. I would love to see one of these in person, and maybe even ride in one as a passenger. I'll buy dinner.

I am not entirely sure on pricing and we were looking at $500k+ GXVs, but I tentatively think this is a $250-300k project. The Excap itself seems like it will be $100k (I am waiting to hear back from them, though...I emailed and no response yet). A box might be another $150-200k. It is not a huge issue if I am off in this estimation, since this is still an immense savings over a GXV or an Earthroamer.

I hit the 10k character limit on my post so I am posting the other half as a reply underneath this...
 

infinitum

New member
...Size is very important to me. I have been to most national parks in the US and many roads have size restrictions. You can probably fudge a bit on some of the length restrictions, and not so much on height if a tunnel is involved. There are of course many places to go besides national parks, but there is nothing quite like, for example, the Going To The Sun Road in Glacier NP. Some size restrictions can be seen here:


But this link is only for traditional campgrounds, which I would like to avoid. I can't find a source that lists all the length limits for the ROADS within the parks together. But the Going To The Sun road in Glacier is probably the most restrictive of them all, so let's focus on that. Vehicles over 21 feet are prohibited. Now, if I am 23 feet, are they going to get out with measuring tape? No. So it just needs to be plausibly close to the limit. I took my Eurovan based rig on this and it was fine, and I believe it was 22'. I am not sure of the exact length of the Steyr after Excap works on it, but I am thinking the box will need to be 15-17 feet. We do not want any external boxes or stuff hanging off of the back adding to the length. You might say I'm silly for caring about this one road, but it's the only real way to get from one end of Glacier NP to the other. I do not want to be limited to just one side of the park, and it is our favorite park.



Width is not a problem. The Excap is 8 feet wide, which is the exact limit for just about every road.



As for height, one of our other favorite areas is Zion NP, which has a tunnel that requires a permit if you are over 11'4". Obtaining a permit is a slight inconvenience but not a deal killer. However, 13 feet seems to be a hard limit. I see 13 ft tunnels everywhere. We were recently exploring Bisbee AZ and went through 3 or 4. I have checked several sites with differing heights for the Steyr 12M18 but it seems to be about 11 feet. I do not expect this to increase much with tire/suspension mods because the vehicle in stock form is already riding high on huge tires. There was an Acela, a similar truck, at Overland Expo, with a box on the back sticking up above the cab of the truck, and the total height was listed at 12'2". This would be acceptable. Does anyone have more accurate numbers?

Speaking of the Acela, what is the consensus on which is the superior truck? The LMTV or the Steyr? As I understand it, the Steyr is the original, which was then fitted with a bunch of American-made parts to meet the US Military's 50% American requirement. So the Steyr has its powertrain, and the LMTV/Acela has a different one...namely, a CAT engine/ Allison transmission combo. Which one of these powertrains is considered to be better? I note that the photos of the interior of the Excap show a gearshift lever. I can drive manual and love driving this way in sports cars, but for a 20,000lb truck trying to cruise and relax, this may not be so enjoyable. I think a lot of hardcore off-road guys prefer a manual transmission for greater control, but I do not anticipate this vehicle getting into any situations where a manual would make a difference versus the auto. I am using this for bad roads, dirt roads, washboard roads, trails big enough to accommodate it...not rock crawling and stuff. Does anyone know if it's possible to get an auto transmission in the Excap? Maybe it would make sense to just swap to the LMTV CAT/Allison powertrain if I'm going to go auto anyway (especially if the CAT/Allison combo is better than the Steyr powertrain?). Is this a straightforward swap due to the similarity of the vehicles? I could assume that but I have learned never to assume anything in the automotive realm.

You might ask, why go through the trouble of importing an Excap when I could just buy an Acela? Because they look cool and the fit and finish is spectacular. That's it. Call it a silly reason if you want. I think the Acela looks not great, while the Excap looks like some kind of futuristic alien battle vehicle. Which is ironic since it's 30 years old. One option might be to order a big load of Excap parts and have them installed on an Acela/LMTV here. But I am not sure if things like the VERY nice cabin etc could truly be replicated in this manner. Thoughts?



Thank you if you made it through this very long post and I appreciate any answers to any of the embedded questions. I have a lot of variables I need to sort out. PMs from any experienced people would be much appreciated. I would love to meet up with any US people who own an Excap or an Acela, and anyone who has a box from Bliss or Krug.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
DOT/EPA regulations for USA import can be a right royal PITA and prohibitively expensive.

If the maker has not at least planned for accommodating those, listing and supporting necessary mods very likely a deal-breaker.

Long term be very wary of diesel, check out CA restrictions, likely to be imposed on non-commercial visitors in coming years.
 

infinitum

New member
Ah I should probably mention I am a Florida resident, no desire to live in CA. If you are saying they will impose restrictions even on VISITORS in the future, that is also fine, long term I do not expect to be able to do anything in CA nor do I really want to. Plenty of great wilderness areas elsewhere in the states. I am not sure, however, if Excap has planned for easily importing to the US. I think there are a couple here so maybe?
 

4milesurfer

New member
Ah I should probably mention I am a Florida resident, no desire to live in CA. If you are saying they will impose restrictions even on VISITORS in the future, that is also fine, long term I do not expect to be able to do anything in CA nor do I really want to. Plenty of great wilderness areas elsewhere in the states. I am not sure, however, if Excap has planned for easily importing to the US. I think there are a couple here so maybe?
I have an EXCAP Steyr 12M25 Doka with a 15' BlissMobil box. You're looking at >$150k+ for the truck if you want it fully decked out, not including the living quarters, shipping, or the import duty. I don't know what the waitlist looks like these days, but it used to be around two years. I'm also not sure if EXPCAP still produce Dokas. I spoke with an international traveler last year touring through the States with an EXCAP and he mentioned that Dokas are no longer available. Stefan did an outstanding job of engineering and adding the additional space for two passengers behind the front seats (and it's TUV certified!). Setting up a pass-through into the living quarters is relatively painless with a Steyr (unlike the LMTV/Acela).

I can cruise all day at 60-65 mph on flat ground. Maybe 70 mph with a tailwind. Going uphill is slow. You'll need to leave extra room for braking as it weighs close to 20k pounds. These things turn on a dime and have a tighter turning radius than my Tacoma and are easy to drive once you get going. Not to start any fights here, but I've found that I don't feel as fatigued driving the EXCAP 10+ hours/day on roads for multiple days as I do with my Sprinter and did when I had an Earthroamer.

Importing it into the USA wasn't a big deal. It just took time and money (obviously). Shipping isn't bad, but the import duty is high. CA is a pain and makes it impossible to register the chassis here upon import. However, once you convert it to an RV and register it as such in a different state, it can be registered in the CA without issue (RVs are exempt from CARB requirements). There are no issues driving around CA if you're from out of state.

Good luck and feel free to reach out if you want any additional information!
 

Peter_n_Margaret

Adventurer
In Oz we have more choices. :)
Our choice was a locally built OKA. It has a simple Perkins diesel, is the "right" size and runs Dana Spicer underneath (60 front, 70 rear) and an NP205 transfer case. All pretty simple and reliable.
The important bit for you is that we have a crawl through between the cab and living area and 2 approved seats in the rear, with seat belts, and a bed-over-cab. This saves on huge otherwise wasted space.
Built in 1994, it is maintanable "forever".
07-10-17 Adminga to William Creek 046cE.jpg
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
 

Darwin

Explorer
There is no way you are going to get what you are looking for with a 300K budget. The chassis alone is going to be at least 150K pushing 200K. Acela is probably the cheapest option but I could be wrong on that.

I am pretty sure a box from Bliss is going to be over 500K pretty easy, probably a lot more.
 

Adventr.us

New member
Following this thread with interest. We're at least a few years away from starting the process of acquiring an XV - but I'm too am thinking we want a cabover, and have run into all the same tradeoffs you have. Will primarily use it in US - but want to be able to venture into the rest of North or South America for some extended trips. May even want to ship it to Oz or Europe for an extended tour.

Would love to hear more about @4milesurfer's experience with his rig - like the way it's used? A new stop every night - or set up as basecamp? Take it into town as you're passing through - or focus on backcountry? Also curious why you chose EXCAP over Acela?

Also @infinitum, this thread is several months old. Have you made a decision on your chassis? Or still looking? Did you come across any additional options you're considering?

Thanks in advance!
 

4milesurfer

New member
Following this thread with interest. We're at least a few years away from starting the process of acquiring an XV - but I'm too am thinking we want a cabover, and have run into all the same tradeoffs you have. Will primarily use it in US - but want to be able to venture into the rest of North or South America for some extended trips. May even want to ship it to Oz or Europe for an extended tour.

Would love to hear more about @4milesurfer's experience with his rig - like the way it's used? A new stop every night - or set up as basecamp? Take it into town as you're passing through - or focus on backcountry? Also curious why you chose EXCAP over Acela?

Also @infinitum, this thread is several months old. Have you made a decision on your chassis? Or still looking? Did you come across any additional options you're considering?

Thanks in advance!

@Adventr.us - DM me and I'll be happy to answer any detailed questions.
 

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