Help wiring solenoid switch..

[gatorgrizz27]

I’m in the process of adding a fuse block inside the cabin of my vehicle, controlled by a 200 amp “dumb” solenoid.

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I went with it over the Blue Sea ACR as I wanted the ability to have the fuse block powered up any time the ignition is on, not just with the engine running and battery voltage > 13 V.

I’d also like to have the ability to override the ignition control and power up the fuse block with it off from time to time. I had though this Blue Sea 3 way switch would allow me to do that, but now I’m not so sure.

Amazon.com: Blue Sea Systems SPDT Remote Control ON-Off-ON Contura Switch for ML Automatic Charging Relays : Industrial & Scientific

Amazon.com: Blue Sea Systems SPDT Remote Control ON-Off-ON Contura Switch for ML Automatic Charging Relays : Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

My thought was to wire it so the “auto” setting in the middle is powered by the ignition, then have the “on” setting powered directly from the battery. The “off” position is a bonus if I have an issue or wanted to work on the fuse block and wiring to have it all turned off without having to disconnect it.

However, the wiring diagram doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, and I had issues when testing the pin out which resulted in some jumper wires pouring out some magic smoke. This was all done on the bench, not in the vehicle, and I was able to rip the wires off the battery before a fire started.

I think what I did wrong, was I had power applied to pin 8, grounded pin 1, and then grounded pin 7 as I assumed it was the ground for just the LED, but it’s actually hot when pin 8 is powered up. So the contacts may be shorted out and not working as it should at this point, which further complicates things. It doesn’t look or smell burnt though, so I don’t want to order a replacement if it can be wired to do what I need anyway.

Here’s what I’m working with...



With power applied to pin 8, pin 7 is hot with 10ish volts regardless of switch position. With power applied to pin 3, pin 2 is hot only in the “on” position. I’m not sure why there is another ground separate from the one for the LED to light up. I’m guessing because it may be specifically setup for that Blue Sea ACR and disconnects it’s ground to operate.

If this switch won’t do what I need, I’m hoping I can find one that will, and use this face plate and recessed trim ring. It’s a standard Carling rocker switch, a Contura II. Basically, all I need is a switch that I can run power in (with ignition on), and has a hot pin in the center position, as well as another pin that I can run constant power to and has a hot pin in the on position, and I may need to add diodes to prevent backfeeding.

This switch also lights both LED’s when it’s in either the on or off positions, none are lit in the center. If I need to use another switch, I’d prefer top and bottom LED’s to light separately depending on switch position.

It looks like this switch might do what I need, but I’d prefer the LED’s to be off in the center position.

Dukes 4x4 and Camping Switch Wiring diagrams cut-out sizes Carling

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Thanks for any help.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I think pins 3 and 8 are just power supplies for the LED, which get switched on/off through 7 by the ACR. Pin 2 is the logic to control the ACR, which IIRC uses either a logic high (taking pin 2 to +12V) or logic low (grounding pin 2) to force it into either A & B connected or isolated.

If pin 2 is floating (the "remote" line is neither forced to high or low) then the ML-ACR will just run automatically. Realize that the ML-ACR has a control board inside of it so the remote switch isn't actually controlling the solenoid directly but rather is a logical input to it. If all you do is ground the ML-ACR (black wire) and leave all the other wires unconnected the controller inside it will follow the automatic logic whether the switch is connected or not.

I think you could in theory just use an ON-OFF-ON SPDT switch to control the ML-ACR if you don't want the LED indictors.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

I think pins 3 and 8 are just power supplies for the LED, which get switched on/off through 7 by the ACR. Pin 2 is the logic to control the ACR, which IIRC uses either a logic high (taking pin 2 to +12V) or logic low (grounding pin 2) to force it into either A & B connected or isolated.

If pin 2 is floating (the "remote" line is neither forced to high or low) then the ML-ACR will just run automatically. Realize that the ML-ACR has a control board inside of it so the remote switch isn't actually controlling the solenoid directly but rather is a logical input to it. If all you do is ground the ML-ACR (black wire) and leave all the other wires unconnected the controller inside it will follow the automatic logic whether the switch is connected or not.

I think you could in theory just use an ON-OFF-ON SPDT switch to control the ML-ACR if you don't want the LED indictors.

Thanks, that’s sort of what I expected, but I hadn’t figured it out to the level that you did. The issue is that I’m not actually using the ACR, I’m using a dumb solenoid that just closes when 12v is applied.

The good news is I found a switch possibility that looks like it could work, if I can decode the ordering sequence and find someone who carries it.



Pins 2&3 are connected in the center (auto) position, so I could do 12v ignition power input to 2, 3 would be output to the solenoid. In the top (on) position, 2&3, and 5&6 are connected, so I could do 12v constant/battery power input to 5, 6 as the output to the solenoid. The bottom position is off as I’d prefer. I assume I’d need diodes in both 3 and 6 to the solenoid, so it doesn’t backfeed. I also don’t know how to determine the LED setup, but it’s not necessary, it would just be nice to have the switch light it if moved from the “auto” setting.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I misunderstood that you're not using the switch for an ML-ACR. I'd have to check my switch (I never installed it with the ML-ACR) but I'd have thought it would just be a switch between pins 1, 2 and 3/8 but I don't know that for a fact.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

I misunderstood that you're not using the switch for an ML-ACR. I'd have to check my switch (I never installed it with the ML-ACR) but I'd have thought it would just be a switch between pins 1, 2 and 3/8 but I don't know that for a fact.

You’re half right. I am using the switch for it, but not the actual ACR. I had assumed how it functioned the switch would work with a different solenoid, but it may not.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

For anybody wondering why I’m setting it up this way, it seems to have a ton of versatility. The aux fuse block will power a GMRS radio, ARB fridge plug, and iPhone charging cable. In the normal automatic mode, I don’t have to worry about anything drawing the battery down when the ignition is off. However, I can turn the solenoid switch on and power up the GMRS radio to check the weather, or run the fridge for a few minutes after dinner without the headlights coming on or drawing any more power than needed. Obviously you have to remember to turn it back off, but I do carry a lithium jump starter.

I’m also running an 8 gauge wire and plug out to the hitch, so with the switch on I could plug in a battery charger during periods of non-use, connect a solar panel, or with the switch off and my trailer connected I can power the fridge inside the vehicle off the trailer batteries.

 

[JPC]

It looks to me that pin 2 connects to either pin 1 or 3 depending on the switch position... which would lead me to believe:

Pin 1 = power from battery (this will power pin 2 with the switch in the top on position)

Pin 2 = connect to solenoid trigger (will receive power from either pin 1 or pin 3 depending on switch position)

Pin 3 = connect to ignition power source (will power pin 2 with the ignition on & switch in middle position)

Pin 7 = ground

Pin 8 = power from battery (not sure if this is just for the LEDs).

I’m no expert in this, so I could be way off here. If you wanted to test this, connect the switch to the solenoid, but do not hook the battery to the solenoid yet. You will be able to here the solenoid click when it activates. Once you have it working the way you want it, connect the battery to the solenoid.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

Alright, I believe I’ve found the right switch! I haven’t actually been able to find a catalog of Carling Rocker Switches, just their decoder which means you need to find the whole part number to know what it is. In case anyone is interested in doing something similar, it’s switch VED2GHNB-AAC00-000, and fortunately it was actually available on eBay for $26 shipped, rather than needing to order 100.

It is a 3 position on-on-on switch with pin 5 being common to all circuits, meaning that can be the solenoid trigger wire an no diodes are needed. It also has green and amber LED’s that can be wired independently. This means the positions can be set up as follows:

Middle - auto - solenoid operates with ignition switch, no LED
Top - on - solenoid is connected regardless of ignition, green LED
Bottom - off - solenoid is disconnected regardless of ignition, amber LED

I’ll post up again when the switch shows up and I can confirm it works as I hope it will. Thanks for being a sounding board and helping me think through this.

As a side note, there are an absolute ton of different rocker switches, you should be able to find one for almost any application. Here’s a link to the decoder.

https://www.carlingtech.com/sites/default/files/documents/V-Series-II-III_datasheet.pdf

 

[rayra]

I might not be trackign properly as it's been a long day for me. But did you smoke something connected to the switch because you linked the switch directly to the battery, trying to power the the solenoid-triggering circuit? Have you diagrammed your main power flow from battery thru ACR, thru solenoid and onward, without your switch and then with. It vaguely sounds to me like you are mixing things together or possibly bridging something you shouldn't as you add your switch. But I'm probably misunderstanding what you are trying to arrange.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

I’m not using the actual ACR module, I’m just using the switch designed for it because I assumed it could be made to work in the same manner the ACR operates with a different solenoid.

I haven’t hooked anything up to the vehicle yet, I always test switches on the bench to determine the right wiring using a battery and multi meter. The only thing the solenoid I’m using requires is 12v applied to one of the small terminals to operate it.

When I was testing the switch I was just using the packaging diagram from the photo with the yellow background. After looking at the drawing with the ACR and both batteries, etc, it appears that this switch is designed to apply power in one position and create a ground in the other.

I can look at the part number on the switch and use the Carling decoder I found to see which pins should be making contact in which positions. It’s certainly possible I burnt something up internally, but there was no discoloration or burnt smell on it.

In any case, I think the switch I ordered yesterday should work with the face plate and protective bezel of the Blue Sea ACR one, which is the primary reason I wanted to use it.

 

[rayra]

Guess I don't understand the ACR then. I'd thought all the 'magic' was inside the ACR unit and it was deciding what to combine or sever based on voltage levels and power inputs. Thought the whole point to it was automation and not a manual switch controlling it.

I mean I seem to sort of have what you are trying to configure. Have a dumb solenoid as a combiner between my factory setup and my Aux battery, with that solenoid being triggered on by a factory aux / trailer circuit that is only hot when the key is on. Turn the key, batteries combined, both are charged by the vehicle. Turn the key off and the batteries are segregated and my rear power box is only drawing down the Aux (and getting fed by my rooftop solar).

But it seems you want the ACR for its ability to prevent drawing down your battery too far. But I don't understand if you are trying to protect your Aux / House battery from that, or your Start battery. And what you are trying to do with the manual switch. I seems you are trying / wanting to defeat the automatic low-power cutoff, by manually applying triggering power to the solenoid?

/I'd actually want a switch to DISable my solenoid, on the possibility that I've killed either battery and DON'T want them combined on Startup. A simple switch would save me the trouble of having to disconnect the Aux. And if my Start is dead I'm physically swapping my batteries anyway. I deliberately set my system up that way with that in mind, using basic SLA automotive batts.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

Guess I don't understand the ACR then. I'd thought all the 'magic' was inside the ACR unit and it was deciding what to combine or sever based on voltage levels and power inputs. Thought the whole point to it was automation and not a manual switch controlling it.

I mean I seem to sort of have what you are trying to configure. Have a dumb solenoid as a combiner between my factory setup and my Aux battery, with that solenoid being triggered on by a factory aux / trailer circuit that is only hot when the key is on. Turn the key, batteries combined, both are charged by the vehicle. Turn the key off and the batteries are segregated and my rear power box is only drawing down the Aux (and getting fed by my rooftop solar).

But it seems you want the ACR for its ability to prevent drawing down your battery too far. But I don't understand if you are trying to protect your Aux / House battery from that, or your Start battery. And what you are trying to do with the manual switch. I seems you are trying / wanting to defeat the automatic low-power cutoff, by manually applying triggering power to the solenoid?

/I'd actually want a switch to DISable my solenoid, on the possibility that I've killed either battery and DON'T want them combined on Startup. A simple switch would save me the trouble of having to disconnect the Aux. And if my Start is dead I'm physically swapping my batteries anyway. I deliberately set my system up that way with that in mind, using basic SLA automotive batts.

My understanding of the ACR relay is it combines the batteries once the voltage on the starting battery is above 13.6 volts, meaning the engine has to be running. I believe the 3 way switch it comes with works that way in the auto setting, then you can force the batteries to combine or isolate.

I’m running my “dumb relay” between the starting battery and my auxiliary fuse block. It will power my GMRS radio, ARB fridge plug, USB ports, and other accessory ports/switches. My auxiliary battery is in a portable box, so it can be removed when not needed, it will just plug in with a quick connect.

What the Blue Sea ACR switch allows in the auto setting is for the fuse block to power up and batteries to be combined (when plugged in) whenever the ignition is on, regardless of whether the engine is running or not. However, I can turn the switch on and power up the GMRS radio to check the weather at night without the headlights coming on in the campground, etc.

Same for the fridge, it would be nice to push the button and allow the fridge to cool back down for a few minutes after dinner when it’s been opened and closed a bunch and had warmer stuff put back in it, then switch it back off if it’s cool out and it doesn’t need to cycle on and off all night.

The off position would only really be used if something shorted out, phantom draw, or I’m in the process of wiring other stuff in and need to drive the vehicle before stuff’s buttoned up.

 

[luthj]

Just to confirm, the ACR has internal logic, it actually measures the voltage at one/both battery connections (they are the same when combined). The switch is just a regular SPDT switch, it has no logic built in.

Its possible to get unidirectional charging with just a dumb relay. You would just use the D+ or similar switched power source to close the relay when the engine is running.