Help me understand this

[sonoronos]

Well, I'm an "all of the above" kind of person, a lover not a fighter, and spectrum is spectrum, so I don't have anything against any form of RF communication. I've never met a modulation or a frequency I didn't like, although some are easier to deal with than others.

I have both a CB and a VHF/UHF rig in my truck. I'd buy a GMRS radio if anyone I knew used it.

If you're running tight trails and just need to communicate from trail leader to tail gunner, or from spotter to cab, then even those little $15 chinese FRS radios have some pretty great advantages (cheap, ubiquitous, lightweight, tiny.)

 

[DaveInDenver]

This is all I was really getting at. There's plenty of confusion around the Chinese radios right now and what the FCC is saying about them.

There is that indeed. My feeling is the FCC may have been trying to force the issue to in effect protect amateur radio because if they put the squeeze to illegal Part 90 and Part 95 use all those unlicensed frequency squatters would flood onto the ham bands, which from our perspective would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire since the FCC trusts us to self police. Motorola doesn't care about that and my guess is they are primarily behind the push for this enforcement, to protect their piece of the market. I understand these Chinese radios make a serious dent in sales to small businesses and school districts and other organizations that are hard pressed to afford contracts with the big guys.

 

[BigSwede]

Some years ago our overlanding club switched from CB to 2-meter ham. We just weren't getting enough range if we got spread out on a dusty road with CB. I got my ham license with a little studying and took the test at a local ham club, but I am not a ham hobbyist, it's just a tool to me. We came up with a simple "recipe" setup of radio, coax, and antenna for those in our club that weren't interested in doing their own research, and it has worked out fine.

Having said that, if we were starting out today I would give the GMRS mobile units strong consideration for their CB-like simplicity, FM clarity, and small antennas that are less likely to get hit by tree branches.

 

[crazysccrmd]

Having said that, if we were starting out today I would give the GMRS mobile units strong consideration for their CB-like simplicity, FM clarity, and small antennas that are less likely to get hit by tree branches.

You don't need a big antenna for ham either. I used a 14" magnetic mount antenna for a while and was still hitting repeaters 75 miles out and direct radio connections at around 40-50 miles. Plenty of range in a small package and could use ab even more compact antenna for shorter range trail comms.

 

[Tex68w]

So I know I want a dual band radio, this leads me to the following options:

Kenwood 710
Icom 5100
Yaesu 400

I like the user interface of the Yaesu and the sound quality of Fusion, I am concerned about the lack of repeaters and the fact that only Yaesu makes radios and that it's Japanese based.

The Icom seems to be the most popular in my area and D-Star is very common but I wonder about the sound/voice quality of D-Star. Same can be said for the Kenwood and even though it's the oldest radio here, it appears to be the best built. I don't have a Fusion or D-Star repeater within 50 miles of my home so neither is more appealing in that regard and seeing how this will be mobile while traveling I am not swayed one way or another other than D-Star is more common.

Thoughts?

 

[camp4x4]

My understanding is that the Yaesu and Kenwood are the real choice. I've got a Yaesu 400 and I absolutely love it. They all have quirks of their own though. I know a lot of folks say they like the Kenwood's APRS implementation, but the deal sealer for me was the screen on the Yaesu. It is the closest thing to a modern looking interface out that, which is kind of a shame.

 

[Tex68w]

Seeing a lot of issues reported with the screen on the Icom 5100 related to heat, not good seeing how I live in south Texas. I like the Yaesu for the interface but the Fusion system is concerning. I know it's not a hard mount unit but this looks intriguing, the Kenwood TH-D74, any experience?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Fusion is what it is, but I think it's gaining users since Yaesu just sticks with it and is pretty aggressive about getting radios out there with it. I wouldn't worry about buying a Fusion radio, Yaesu has been making ham radios for many decades, they aren't going anywhere and the number of users can only go up. They're on generation 2 of their mixed mode repeaters, so they're sticking with it.

D-STAR radios have been around a long time and there's an established group of users. DMR is gaining pretty fast on both. But with the hot spots that can do all the protocols you can probably figure out a way to talk on any of them using Brandmeister. They're all going to sound reasonably good, FM quality give or take. I'm satisfied with my DMR radios, FWIW.

If I was buying and the choice was between those 3 it would be the Kenwood. Full APRS implementation and the screen isn't obnoxious. I had a FTM-400 briefly that I sold and bought a FTM-350 instead. The screen on that was big but at least I could run the radio at night and not be blinded.

 

[Tex68w]

Which DMR dual band for the truck do you recommend? I see there are some DMR repeaters in my area.

 

[ratkin]

I do want to clarify, everything that was stated regarding GMRS is true and GMRS is a good radio solution, has its place and should be considered. As a matter of fact, I intend on getting a GMRS license in the near future so I can pop a few mobiles in the family vehicle on account that literally nobody else in my entire family has any interest in getting their Tech license. Also, all of your family can operate under your GMRS license whereas with an Amateur license only you can or someone else with your direct presence and supervision.

This is exactly why I went ahead and got a GMRS license in January of this year! After getting my Technician license in January 2011 (and upgrading to General in June of that same year) I spent seven years trying to cajole my wife and kids to get their Tech license before giving up. They're completely fine using the GMRS radios and not having to take a test!

One of our most recent members got his Tech Ticket on his own and then drove to the Ham Radio Online store in Atlanta a few hours away right after and bought a brand new Icom ID-5100 and a bunch of stuff to go with it.

Not sure how close to Atlanta you are, but we've got a pretty extension GMRS repeater system around here that covers a major part of the entire State of Georgia, as well as parts of southeast Tennessee, northwest Alabama, and areas in North Carolina. Go ahead and check out the North Georgia GMRS Association if it's close to you!

73,
Richard - KJ4ZTY | WRAM373

 

[Billoftt]

This is exactly why I went ahead and got a GMRS license in January of this year! After getting my Technician license in January 2011 (and upgrading to General in June of that same year) I spent seven years trying to cajole my wife and kids to get their Tech license before giving up. They're completely fine using the GMRS radios and not having to take a test!



Not sure how close to Atlanta you are, but we've got a pretty extension GMRS repeater system around here that covers a major part of the entire State of Georgia, as well as parts of southeast Tennessee, northwest Alabama, and areas in North Carolina. Go ahead and check out the North Georgia GMRS Association if it's close to you!

73,
Richard - KJ4ZTY | WRAM373

I live just on the other side of the river from Disgusta, GA.

I think there is a GMRS repeater around here tied into that network.

Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk

 

[BigSwede]

You don't need a big antenna for ham either. I used a 14" magnetic mount antenna for a while and was still hitting repeaters 75 miles out and direct radio connections at around 40-50 miles. Plenty of range in a small package and could use ab even more compact antenna for shorter range trail comms.

Sometimes that will work, but when we are plowing through tight overgrown woods trails a roof antenna gets knocked off immediately, so I have a half-wave antenna on a rear door hinge mount. Quarter waves won't work well there, as I understand it.

 

[ratkin]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone, I honestly didn't expect this kind of response. It's nice to know that there's a very active part of the community here that is into radios. It sounds like I should jump in head first with this stuff as I find it kind of intriguing. I have a lot of research to do a lot to learn on this front.

In the spirit of throwing you into the deep end of the pool, may I recommend a site that will help you with learning about mobile radio - k0bg.com
It's geared towards ham radio, but the lessons from it will work for any radio service, be it CB, GMRS, Ham, or MURS.

Why is a license necessary, what is so dangerous about operating this stuff without one? I understand it's the law, but what are the risks involved in someone operating unlicensed, what danger do they pose that requires it to be regulated?

For me, I just try to remember that the licensing process is about allowing each of us to use the radio waves for our own purposes without interfering with others or being interfered with. Danger wise, first responders as well as airport systems are sometimes on the receiving end of interference (mostly accidental, sometimes intentional) that really has had some harmful consequences.

I have no clue what I need in a mobile based radio, but we have some big trips planned next year and I'd like to get a nice setup that allows me to communicate with others in the group while on the go and as a backup to phones and the Garmin inReach.
...
I am aware that I need to get a license (also need guidance there, I'm local to Houston) and I am all for it, but help simplify this process for me as I want to buy once/cry once here and be done with it. I'm not looking to blow $1K+ but I also don't mind spending a little if it means quality and reliability with no need to upgrade a few years down the road. In other words, I'd like something I could grow into and not feel like I need more as I learn and grow with this.

Any guidance, suggestions, or a Reader's Digest breakdown here would be much appreciated.

Another good resource for understanding radio is a guy by the name of Gordon West, and it was his material that I used to study to take both the Technician and General ham radio exams. One of his suggestions is for folks considering getting into ham radio is to get a dual-band (VHF/UHF) handheld transceiver referred to as an "HT" as a first radio. With an external magnetic-mount antenna on the outside of your vehicle(s), you will get surprisingly good range, especially in the flatland of Texas.

As being properly licensed is important to you (and me!), and being a part of a group where simplicity may be important and that may or may not have an interest in studying/taking test (i.e. my own family) I'm going to suggest an outlier approach - consider the TERA TR-505 GMRS/MURS Recreational Handheld Radio. You can order online, or purchase from the Ham Radio Outlet store in Plano.

Why this radio? It's small, very simple to operate, can be temporarily mounted and used with microphone, can be ran off of your cigarette lighter outlet and when set up on the MURS frequencies legally (it's FCC Part 95 certified under Subpart J and Subpart E) and be used without any license whatsoever. MURS frequencies are VHF and generally work better over terrain (such as the TX Hill Country). When your group is ready to upgrade to more power (with proper license), then you can reprogram the radio for GMRS frequencies. Need additional power, you can add a commercial amplifier. Ready to upgrade to Ham, you can reprogram the radio for those frequencies, an not lose your initial investment in the radio. Unfortunately, you not legally able to go the other route, and use ham radio's reprogrammed for MURS or GMRS (yes I know people due, but let's not turn this thread into one of those arguments). My kids haven't broken one yet, even using them on the ski slopes or during rounds of airsoft.

To protect your investment in an external antenna that will cover all of the frequencies for MURS (VHF – 151-154 MHz), GMRS (UHF – 462-467 MHz), & Ham (VHF-2 Meters – 144-148 MHz; UHF-70 cm – 420-450 MHz), I would suggest the Comet CA-2x4SRNMO antenna, in a NMO mag-mount with this cable adapter for use on your vehicles. When you decide to permanently install the antenna on your vehicle, then you would still keep the same antenna, but choose a new mount (drill, no-drill). You can also install a base antenna at your house that covers all the same frequencies as well.

These antennas and mounts also will work with single or dual-band mobile radios (GMRS - ExPo Sponsor!, Part 90 Commercial/Land Mobile, or Ham). To use at your house, you would purchase a 12-volt power supply.

I'm not affiliated with any of these companies or industry, but hope this is helpful to you and your family/group needs.

Thanks,
Richard

 

[DaveInDenver]

Which DMR dual band for the truck do you recommend? I see there are some DMR repeaters in my area.

I run the Connect Systems CS800D in my truck and have no complaints with it mostly. This is a dual band, single VFO radio that does FM and DMR. IIRC 50 watts on both VHF and UHF.

Mine is only Part 15 approved but I understand they are submitting it for Part 90 approval, so I may buy another at some point if that comes through. The only issue I've had with it was a poor quality microphone cable that was susceptible to interference. I bought a commercial Kenwood mic and cable and it's been solid since.

The DMR radio it replaced was a Vertex Standard VXD-7200, which is a rebadged Motorola XPR4550. That thing is a much better quality radio than the Connect Systems but it's only single band and I was running it along side an FTM-350 for analog FM and APRS. Just a lot of junk installed in my truck. I now have a 5 watt data radio dedicated for APRS and just one radio and face installed for voice modes. Cleaned up the cab quite a bit.

Although I lost the dual VFO option, but the real impact is small since the FTM-350 had the secondary side dedicated to APRS so it was in reality also just a single VFO voice radio. But I had the DMR radio separate, so I could monitor two stations as long as one was UHF. I already had two antennas and still do, although one went from UHF to VHF single band. The other is the same dual band 2m/70cm.

So as far what to recommend, that's difficult to say. There's no clean solutions like the FTM-400 to do everything. DMR is a much more traditionally ham sort of thing, lots of tinkering, repurposing radios. It hasn't been commercialized yet like D-STAR and Fusion. Alinco may be doing so, they are now selling a couple of DMR handhelds.

As of right now it's kind of every ham for himself figuring out gear. There's several DMR HT options but I personally don't agree with suggesting one for mobile use. It's a kludge and a mess when you add an external antenna, hand mic, external power. A lot of trouble for 5 watts and a small screen. Just my $0.02.

At this point there's only one DMR ham radio that does both 2m and 70cm with a face that separates and that's the CS800D. The AnyTone AT-778UV does FM and DMR on 2m and 70cm, but the face isn't remote mountable and that makes using it in my truck difficult. If you don't need the face to come off that has a nice color display and may be an option.

 

[Tex68w]

In my AO the overwhelming majority of repeaters are FM (as I am sure it is for most that don't live in a major metro). The closest repeater that isn't FM is a DMR and it's 37 miles away and the closest D-Star is 59 miles out. The further north and west I travel from my AO the more common the Fusion repeaters become, but again the closest one is some 79 miles out. I see more DMR and D-Stare repeaters within 75 miles of my AO but the closer we head towards our property the more common the Fusion repeaters become.

I am not so much worried about these digital repeaters being out of range for my AO needs because this system will be more for travel and tracking purposes when away from home than anything else. I just hate that I have to pick a radio and make/manu based off of which digital repeater system I want to use, how do I know which digital repeaters I want to use when there isn't any one in the majority in my area and I don't already have a bunch of buddies using a specific system? I think it's crap that they all don't use one system or at least allow the ability to transmit with any of the different digital repeaters when necessary.

I see now how this can get very confusing for those starting out and how you can easily fall down this rabbit hole to hell and never find your way back out lol. I guess I could wait until I have established myself with a local club and passed my exams for licensing before I buy. This would at least allow me to talk to others in the area and hear their reasoning behind why they use a specific digital repeater over the others and I would also get some firsthand feedback on radio manufacturers and specific models. It will be hard for me to hold off like that as I like to throw myself head first into things and have the hardware to play with and keep me interested as I learn and grow. First world problems!