Heavy vehicle recovery gear

Ramdough

Adventurer
I was doing some looking into recovery gear for large vehicles. I am looking at 20,000 lb+ size vehicles.

I noticed that a bunch of the Unicat style vehicles have front and rear winches, which makes sense. Some have multiple blow up jacks, some have sand ladders, all have shovels and other basic stuff.....etc.

What do you believe is a must have and what do you feel would be just nice to have? I am mostly interested in the nuances in having a large vehicle needing recovery. I have had a small vehicle for many years, so I understand the small scale list.

I would think that a front *and* rear winch would be required. Or at least a rear winch. An assortment of straps, shackles etc.

I see a lot of sand ladders, but I am curious if such a large vehicle would easily turn them into potato chips.

Do land anchors work or is the scale such that you would need many of them?

Thoughts?





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Ozrockrat

Expedition Leader
Winches add a lot of weight and without suitable ground anchors are useless. My thoughts are to save the money you would spend on winches and hide it somewhere in the truck to pay for a tractor to pull you out when required.

Maxtrax believe that their product will handle my truck at over 20000 lbs. Even with that assurance I grabbed some PSP Marsden Mat instead. The ones I have are 5' long and wider than Maxtrax which suit my rig better. They can also be used for around the camp if it's too muddy or sandy especially with the outside shower.

e97868cdf9fbad8f0b77d3723c841798.jpg


In the photo above you can see the hi lift jack. I do not recommend using them (ever) and only carry it for my military trailer.

What you do need to carry is good shovels, jack or jacks that will fit under you axles when the tires are flat but still lift high enough to change a wheel or put supports under the tires. I prefer air over hydraulic because it gets me out from under the vehicle while jacking it up. We also carry aluminum blocks rather than wood as they do not splinter and are light.

You can get suitable kinetic ropes for your truck. Remember even if there is another big vehicle to pull you out of trouble they will probably not have suitable rigging. Carry your own straps, shackles etc.

The big airbags have there place. I would have these over a winch. Make sure you practice using them before you need to.
 
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I have DP 20AJ front winch and Superwinch 15000 lb rear winch, both hydraulic
http://www.team-twg.com/documents/dp-winch/sales-literature/model-15aj-20aj-technical-drawing.pdf
https://www.superwinch.com/products/superwinch-hydraulic-planetary-11-000-15-000
Air bag, I recommend this one: http://catalog.matjack.com/viewitem...0lbs-matjack-medium-pressure-lifting-cushion?
2 enormous kinetic ropes (I think they are 1.5" and 1.25"), 3/8" and 1/2" chains with hooks on the ends, extra 3/8" wire rope to attach my 2 Pull-Pal anchors to winch cable hook
2 hydraulic jacks, wooden blocking
pulleys for winch cable, lots of shackles, shovels
I purposely do NOT carry a high lift jack
I used to carry PSP plates, 4 x 5' sections, but I decided they were heavy and redundant once I got my CTIS system sorted with Hutchinson wheels and beadlocks (allowing me to go down to single digit pressures if needed)

Have I used this stuff? I've used the winches occaisonally, only once or twice to recover myself. Most recently in NW Mongolia to pull a 30000 lb Mercedes tractor-trailer out of the mud.

Charlie
 
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Ramdough

Adventurer
I have DP 20AJ front winch and Superwinch 15000 lb rear winch, both hydraulic
http://www.team-twg.com/documents/dp-winch/sales-literature/model-15aj-20aj-technical-drawing.pdf
https://www.superwinch.com/products/superwinch-hydraulic-planetary-11-000-15-000
Air bag, I recommend this one: http://catalog.matjack.com/viewitem...0lbs-matjack-medium-pressure-lifting-cushion?
2 enormous kinetic ropes (I think they are 1.5" and 1.25"), 3/8" and 1/2" chains with hooks on the ends, extra 3/8" wire rope to attach my 2 Pull-Pal anchors to winch cable hook
2 hydraulic jacks, wooden blocking
pulleys for winch cable, lots of shackles, shovels
I purposely do NOT carry a high lift jack
I used to carry PSP plates, 4 x 5' sections, but I decided they were heavy and redundant once I got my CTIS system sorted with Hutchinson wheels and beadlocks (allowing me to go down to single digit pressures if needed)

Have I used this stuff? I've used the winches occaisonally, only once or twice to recover myself. Most recently in NW Mongolia to pull a 30000 lb Mercedes tractor-trailer out of the mud.

Charlie

Have you ever used your land anchors? I was thinking of having two large ones as well.

I was looking at two Smittybilt X2O 17.5 winches, one front and one rear. Price and load rating are prime reasons for these winches. They would be non-hydraulic, but I kind of like the idea of being able to drive my tires while winching. With a PTO hydraulics, you have to be in neutral. I just would have to possibly pause to let things cool down if I am working hard.

I plan to have working CTIS on an M1083 platform with 2 rear Detroit Soft Lockers in the rear two axles (to give you truck details). Stock double bead lock rims with 395/85-r20 tires.

Would you carry only one air bag? I am a little concerned with popping them.

Do you use standard bottle jacks?

Thanks!


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Ramdough

Adventurer
Winches add a lot of weight and without suitable ground anchors are useless. My thoughts are to save the money you would spend on winches and hide it somewhere in the truck to pay for a tractor to pull you out when required.

Maxtrax believe that their product will handle my truck at over 20000 lbs. Even with that assurance I grabbed some PSP Marsden Mat instead. The ones I have are 5' long and wider than Maxtrax which suit my rig better. They can also be used for around the camp if it's too muddy or sandy especially with the outside shower.

e97868cdf9fbad8f0b77d3723c841798.jpg


In the photo above you can see the hi lift jack. I do not recommend using them (ever) and only carry it for my military trailer.

What you do need to carry is good shovels, jack or jacks that will fit under you axles when the tires are flat but still lift high enough to change a wheel or put supports under the tires. I prefer air over hydraulic because it gets me out from under the vehicle while jacking it up. We also carry aluminum blocks rather than wood as they do not splinter and are light.

You can get suitable kinetic ropes for your truck. Remember even if there is another big vehicle to pull you out of trouble they will probably not have suitable rigging. Carry your own straps, shackles etc.

The big airbags have there place. I would have these over a winch. Make sure you practice using them before you need to.

I like the idea of air over hydraulic. Which ones did you buy? Is there a manual mode if the air system is having issues?

How often have you used the PSP? Would you ever consider the aluminum versions?

Thanks!


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Ozrockrat

Expedition Leader
I just use harbor fright jacks. Make sure you test them under load as soon as you buy them. I have had a couple leak. But once you get a good one I have never had a problem with it failing afterwards. You do have a manual mode.

I have only used the PSP twice. Personally I have never used the aluminum ones but I did help some German travelers straighten theirs at my place after they used them in Baja. Apparently the flexed a lot but did get them out of trouble. I went with steel because the were cheap and available. Otherwise I probably would of gone with heavy duty ramps to allow for bridging ( I have a fair overhang at the back) as well as using them as sand mats.

I am still considering getting a couple of sets of Maxtrax as they would be a lot easier to store and use but still have the PSP for the oh poop moments.
 
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Ramdough

Adventurer
This is the winch I am looking at.


http://www.smittybiltdepot.com/Smit...pcfon=1&gp=1&gclid=CI2zlJO11tMCFQuRaQodYUgHDA

As I mentioned, right now I prefer electric so I don't have to be in neutral to use a PTO hydraulic unit. I would enjoy opinions about that.

I know the brand has a moderate reputation (not best or worst). But the price is very reasonable and if I have two identical winches, I have a spare if one really dies in a pinch.

Any thoughts?


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Ramdough

Adventurer
Perhaps research is in order.
My truck PTOs can be run whilst driving,, (M-B & LandCruiser) Maybe some PTOs dont ?? Or just fitted with an interlock to engage.

The factory PTO does not work while driving on an M1083. That is true. I would have to do something custom to get both options.


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I have not used my land anchors but I wouldn't go out without them.

Electric winches are pretty borderline for a vehicle that will gross at least 28K. They heat up VERY quickly, they are ~20% efficient** (the rest goes to heat) vs hydraulic winches are 50-70% efficient*. I suspect they will overheat/burn out for all but the shortest pulls. Can you install a belt driven hydraulic pump like I have in the U500? It is rated at 21.7hp output but even my front 20K only draws 11.57 hp max, it puts out about 7 hp max.

Why would I carry 2 air bags when even 1 takes up a lot of storage space when I have never even used it?

My jacks are just...hydraulic jacks - 12 and 20 ton.

*The waste heat in the hydraulic system is dissipated in 45L of oil and there is even a hydraulic oil radiator. The waste heat on an electric winch just builds up in the motor.
**https://www.warn.com/industrial/winches/series_18dc.jsp
The Warn 18K 24V winch is only 16.8% efficient at 18K load. It has a duty cycle of only 0.7min/10min, which adds up to 3.1 feet every TEN minutes. 12V will be worse due to increase amperages.
If you do go electric I hope it is a 24V system.

Charlie
 
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Ramdough

Adventurer
I will look into hydraulic belt drive units. Do you have any recommendations?


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Felipe

Observer
This is what I have:
Superwinch front and rear
Teleflow CTIS
Hutchinson wheels with bedlocks
Software was changed to be able to spin the wheels while winching.
Regards
Felipe
IMG_5330.JPG


IMG_5327.JPG


IMG_5328.JPG
 
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Ramdough

Adventurer
I wonder if the m1083 can be reprogrammed to use the PTO while the wheels are driving? That is a very interesting option if it can be done.


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Ramdough

Adventurer
I wonder how the tipper version of this truck works ?
Would expect its 'hydros are PTO. I never drove a tipper, but expect a miserable thing to unload if one had to shift to "N" each time the tipping needs adjustment.

Tipper version? I am not sure what you mean.

The truck comes with air driven hydraulics for tipping the cab, lowering the spare tire, and squatting the suspension for air transport. That pump would not work for a winch. The winch trucks have a dedicated PTO unit.


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