HANNIBAL PRODUCTS AUSTRALIA (Read the fine print)

isignay

Observer
I recently purchased a Hannibal awning & zip annex walls.

After receiving the product a fellow expo member pointed out that the company was bought out. The new owner is using the Hannibal brand but selling inferior quality parts.

I’m sure someone with more technical knowledge can attest to the quality differences but here is what the fellow expo member noticed :

“the new stuff doenst have the mount plate on the back, also, the canopy bar plug on the original is machined aluminum with a scerw, this one is plastic and a rivet.”

I bought a Hannibal product paying a premium in price because of the quality. Buyers beware Hannibal South Africa is NOT affiliated with Hannibal Australia, you are getting different quality parts.

The owner of the Australian site has NOT updated product photos or descriptions which I believe is misleading.
 
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badfysh

Adventurer
I am the second buyer from Ilya. I want to start by saying three things very clearly....

  1. I am NOT the original buyer so I do not know any history of the original transaction.
  2. I am ONLY attesting to what I have received as the second buyer and that it doesn't match Hannibal Safari (Australia) website (ie: build quality issues and pictures are of actual SA Hannibal Products).
  3. I wasn't aware that the "new" Hannibal company is "not associated" after Aug/18. They do have a disclaimer on their website, (see below, I missed it - my fault/my loss), but they are using old/original? product pictures and have no issues sending boxes that clearly show the product came from China (Taiwan) and NOT Australia. They don't specifically say the awnings are made in Australia on their website, only the tent page says that, so they aren't lying, but definitely not very forthcoming on their website.
So here we go......

I've been looking for an awning for quite some time. Mostly a price issue. I don't think even Hannibal awning warrant the prices they are getting. That said, this isn't a pricing story, its a build quality /deception issue. Ilya recently posted an ad for a brand new in box awning and annex and after a price drop, we arranged a deal. Upon meeting him to exchange money for product, I did NOT open the boxes etc. as I made an assumption (again, my fault, no passing the buck). MY assumption was that the products were what Ilya said they were and they were brand new. BOTH were true. I briefly peeked in one box, brand new awning. So the deal was made. NO complaint against the seller.

After arriving home from a 3 hr round trip I had some work to do so I didn't get to the boxes right away. Again, I can't say it enough that I should have looked right away. Anyway, I finally opened the boxes. I opened the annex first and the awning second and here is what I found.

1. Annex - (I personally have never owned a Hannibal annex or any sort of room extension. Awnings, tents, racks, but never an annex)

The first thing I noticed was that the box was from Taiwan, It had an international (Taiwan to Australia) shipping label and very clearly is shipped to Hannibal Safari Equipment. At first I thought that maybe this was just what the company resold it in but then quickly backed off that as why would ANY company sell their nice new product in a crappy old box. Well, with first hand knowledge, that's what they do in China and apparently the new Hannibal Australia is too cheap to send new product in a company box. I also noticed some writing that says "HANNIBAL", it has a paper label that says Hannibal and was clearly an old box for TPMS tire pressure monitoring sets of some sort. I'm getting concerned at this point

So not a good start, but still I had hope. I opened the box and immediately noticed two things....1. The seller (original buyer from Hannibal) did NOT deceive, the annex is BRAND NEW as described. 2. This isn't a "Hannibal" quality product. (sad face). The annex itself looked strange to me. Since I have never owned an annex, I couldn't verify these issues but here is what I found and I immediately started to worry about the awning.

  1. Zippered connection vs. grommets. I only mention this because old Hannibal used grommets and latches. Zippers may or may not be better but certainly indicative of being not original/different.
  2. No logos anywhere.
  3. Carry bag doesn't match (grey nylon)
  4. Black straps/velcro - (Hannibal uses/used green/tan textiles)
Again, I can't speak to what is advertised or what was originally sold. The new website has NO information regarding Annex products. On the tent page, they have some pictures that show an original awning.

So I went to the garage and opened the awning. (really sad face). Here is what I found:

  1. No labels on the box
  2. Awning Logo/Label sewn on doesn't match. It's the old logo (i thought they weren't associated since 2018) but it doesn't say "Hannibal Awning", just Hannibal.
  3. Buckles for storing are plastic
  4. Black velcro everywhere
  5. Mounting bracket doesn't have the welded on portion or mating clamp to attach to a Hannibal rack. (How are we supposed to mount this thing? It didn't even come with some kind of new bracket)
  6. Covering cross bar end plugs are rubber and riveted in place (?!? rivet on rubber?)
  7. Strange hardware (clearly Chinese) - the stainless bolts used have odd markings and are of low quality. again, I mfr./buy in/from China all the time and I know what these issues look. True to form, the first bolt I tried to removed, stripped. HAd to cut it off with a cutoff wheel. Common on Chinese hardware because of their machinery etc. The bolt hardware often has poor quality threads.
So....I messaged the original seller and asked where he got this stuff> he said he bought direct from Hannibal and has receipts etc. I said I don't need the receipts just want to know the history because these products don't match the images (or original Hannibal quality) that is advertised on the page he linked to in the original ad. Anyway, he was clearly disturbed by these events. We made no arrangements to return the items. He sold what he bought and linked to the page he bought it from. I have no issue with him. And I have no recourse with Hannibal as I am not the original purchaser. I also told Ilya that it wasn't my place to "start" this thread for the same reason and he posted here on his own. I did not request that he do so but I do agree that people should be aware.

This is the disclaimer (that I missed) on their website:

Copyright © 2018 Remote Travel Products Pty Ltd - Trading as Hannibal Safari Equipment Australia. All Rights Reserved. Please note: The Hannibal Safari Equipment Australia business, brand and logo are the sole property of Remote Travel Products Pty Ltd, an independently run Australian business that is no longer affiliated with Hannibal Safari Equipment South Africa, as at 1 August 2018.

If it's no longer affiliated why are using old pictures and selling product with old labels?!?!?

I have TWO issues with these products.

  1. They are inferior quality.
  2. They are not what is shown in photos on the website.
I again want to be very clear that I should have looked in the box at time of purchase, but that fact has no bearing on build quality or photo advertisements or on original purchaser. I should have researched more but I have looked around after the fact and don't really see any threads of people complaining about this "new" company. Is it because they are so new and very few have bought from them, maybe a big seller in Australia, not US? Is it because people don't realize what they are getting? I don't know.

I also want to be clear, I have NO issue with Ilya. He sold what he bought.

Pictures are of the annex box and of the awning itself. I'm not going to post everything but I will happy to upload more if anyone cares. I have screen grabbed all the Hannibal website images also, but again, feel free to go look... https://www.hannibalsafari.com.au/product/hannibal-safari-legless-awning/

I added one image from their website (the last one). It clearly shows the metal buckle, green and tan textiles, mount bracket, cross bar hardware (the one attached to the bracket, not the roll up one). There are more images but you can see they are showing original equipment and selling different stuff.

And last, if you are new to offroad/overland whatever, or not aware of what Hannibal used to be, this new "Hannibal" company sells junk. It has misleading website photos and the product is inferior quality.
 

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DaveInDenver

Luddite
I have no horse in this race so I'm disinterested but still confused. Hannibal tents and awning from South Africa is still the same Hannibal as always, it's the Australian distributor that has changed?

The South African one: http://www.hannibal.co.za
 

badfysh

Adventurer
I have no horse in this race so I'm disinterested but still confused. Hannibal tents and awning from South Africa is still the same Hannibal as always, it's the Australian distributor that has changed?

The South African one: http://www.hannibal.co.za
I would assume the stuff from SA is actual Hannibal. I have no idea what the Australian companies former relationship was but it apparently ended in 08/2018. Perhaps only a distributor but then its weird that they are using Hannibal labels and photos if they are no longer affiliated as they claim. Also weird that they can do this. Legally it could be hard to fight, being international and what not, but in the offroad community, it won't last long.
 

badfysh

Adventurer
To be clear (in case I wasn't).... I am speaking of the Hannibal Safari Equipment Australia. I have no idea what their former relationship to Hannibal Safari Equipment South Africa.

MY issue isn't that they are claiming to be a South African Product. I missed their disclaimer and that's my fault. But my issues are:

1. They are selling a Hannibal labeled (SA Logo) product. I have an awning with a label that purchased in March 2019. That label is SA Hannibal label. Very clearly they are using the Hannibal SA label still even though they have no relationship with Hannibal SA. Additionally, they claim to not be affiliated with Hannibal SA (which I believe) but they are still using Hannibal SA stock photos. It's misleading - even I assumed that this was a "new" Hannibal company, maybe licensed product, etc. They may not be affiliated but they are showing images of products that they are NOT providing and the product they did provide more than 6 months after they claim the relationship ended arrived with a Hannibal SA label. It's SHADY at best.

2. The quality is poor.
 

DaveInDenver

Luddite
@badfysh - your post about clarity is why I mentioned it. Hannibal (South African) is a long time product with a seriously good reputation and I wanted to make sure they weren't being accused unnecessarily.

International business, patents, trade-marks and copyrights keeps small armies of lawyers employed around the world. Hannibal (SA) only has legal status in South Africa and in any countries where they have controlling interest in companies or distribution. ARB has a U.S. company, Toyota has a U.S. company, etc. The corporate HQ controls them.

But they are large enough to have structures like that. Hannibal is probably not. So they have authorized representatives, which it sounds like in the case of Hannibal (Australia) went sideways. They probably do have a representative in Australia, its got to be a big market for them. Same here, I can't imagine Hannibal wouldn't want to sell things here. But how much leverage they really have might be small.
 

jacobconroy

Hillbilly of Leisure
I wonder if "Hannibal in South Africa" could chime in and tell us if the goods in the pictures are genuine, or counterfeit? Surely someone affiliated with them frequents this forum.
 

ttengineer

Adventurer
Sounds like South Africa sold the Australian naming rights away and let’s them produce their own line of products under the Hannibal name.

It’s not that uncommon.

The best US example would be Best Buy. When you buy a Sony TV from them, you’re buying a TV made by Best Buy with a Sony nameplate. At least at one time that’s how it was. Not sure if it’s still the same. Either way, same shady style contract.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

jacobconroy

Hillbilly of Leisure
Sounds like South Africa sold the Australian naming rights away and let’s them produce their own line of products under the Hannibal name.

It’s not that uncommon.

The best US example would be Best Buy. When you buy a Sony TV from them, you’re buying a TV made by Best Buy with a Sony nameplate. At least at one time that’s how it was. Not sure if it’s still the same. Either way, same shady style contract.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Makes sense. I remember a time (20-odd years ago) when Sony was the cats' meow. These days...Sony is just another overpriced electronics device.
 

Hannibal Aust

New member
With reference to the posts that appears on this thread regarding my business in Australia. My name is Peter Spowart and I am the owner of Hannibal Safari Equipment Australia and Remote Travel Products. I have only now become aware of this post and would like the opportunity to prevent any on going confusion. I would also like to say that the original purchaser isignay approached me with the comments that appear here and I responded to his comments and offered to work with him if he wanted to make changes. Obviously he decided to move the product on.

I am going to start with some history which hopefully will give you some perspective. I first met one of the Directors of HSE SA (Hannibal Safari Equipment South Africa) in 2004 and started dealing with them as the Australian Distributor in 2005 and had a number of years of good business with them. Unfortunately over time there were issues that related to the timely supply of product which pushed my business in the direction of making product here in Australia.

The tents and awnings product was first followed by the roof racks and other accessories. We have also developed a range of useful options and accessories to complement our roof top tent and awning product.

The fact is that as I used these premium products myself I realised that I would not be the only one to want product of a high quality that lasts so our goal was to go beyond just selling a product. It was about understanding the science behind it and to do our best to educate people. I am very proud of the fact that we have been able to maintain our Australian build quality using a number of Australian manufacturers and suppliers who provide the canvas, vinyl, foam, metal parts and hardware keeping Aussie's in jobs.

The descriptions used and interpretation of how the awning and annex in this thread has been assembled as well as other comments in this post I feel are somewhat misleading for any consumer that is reviewing it. Unfortunately, this is the way of the internet and its supposed to be quite acceptable that people can pass comment even if it is not there field. I would rather have people approach me if they have issues so that solutions can be found. Rather than assume that the product is of substandard quality.

I will now work through the comments from isignay post:

I responded to an email from isignay on the 25th May 2019 a day after he enter this post shown at the start of this thread. As I have done here I was clear about my history and the origin of the product and confirmed that it had been made in my premise in Brisbane Australia.

He obviously had access to a awning which had come from HSE SA. so there are several references to individual pieces. For example: the clamp bracket on the back of the pivot bracket, he mentioned a machined metal part which I think was used in the spreader bar and retained by a screw.

He also mentioned that the photos or descriptions for awning product on my website needed to be updated. I don't know why they were all taken with the very product on Australian vehicles.

With reference to the clamp hardware at the back of the pivot bracket. We have both. The clamp is used when attaching to Hannibal roof racks. I have found that the majority of our sales are with the flat bracket because that is easier to work with when retro fitting to different roof rack systems.

The metal plug that he spoke about would have been something that the owner or previous owner of the awning that he was comparing with would have made if the polyurethane bush that Hannibal used failed.

Don't forget, I have had a relationship with this product since 2004 and never seen a metal bush except for a customer of mine who has a special awning with 2.5m outriggers with walls he uses in the outback welding for oil and gas companies in the field.

I will now work through the comments from badfysh:

I will start with point 2. concerning the photos and information on the website. Please what gives you the idea that they are South African? There are 4 photos all Australian. The Defender 110 was a gentleman who lived in Nhulunbuy in the Northern Territory the 90 Defender was a gentleman who lived on the Gold Coast and the other two images are from a 200 Series Landcrusier job from my workshop in Brisbane.

Point 3 from badfysh. The issue of the boxes. I'm sorry that I don't have a box with a Hannibal Australia logo. However, we do use a range of generic boxes as well and in an attempt to be a little green if the box is in good condition that has come from another supplier it could also be used and save a few trees. As was the case here. Yes we do tpms under the SensaTyre brand and the factory we work with is in Taiwan. They do not build awnings, roof top tents or roof racks.

Now I will deal with points at point of opening:

1. With reference to zips for the walls of the annexe. Pre 2004 HSE SA awning annexe product was zipped. We do zips as an option which isignay confirmed in his post above.
2. Logo, my apologies that there was no logo on the walls. this would have been an oversight by my staff.
3. Carry bag. no comment. the walls were supplied with a bag.
4. We have been using more black in our build. this would be a small rolling change that we have done to ensure a point of difference.

Point 2 of second group of comparisons regarding old logo. at that time we were still working with the traditional HSE logo as this was the logo that we had Trade Marked for the Australian Market. a new logo has now been made which also shows the "Australian Made" accreditation for our tent and awning build. see image below.
Point 3. buckles were plastic. Yes, we had a rolling change from the cam lock buckles to a military grade side release buckle. We made this move as a request from Rio Tinto who uses our awnings in the Pilbara region of the North West Australia. This was done to have less issues with sand/dust and operation with the small springs with the camlocks.
Point 5. re mounting bracket. maybe isignay should have follow me up I would have happily sent them. In your case badfysh if you still have it contact me. which you could have done back then. However, there is nothing stopping you from drilling and bolting the pivot bracket. Which I have found is a popular option for most retro fits.
Point 6. The bushes are not rubber or plastic. The Bush used in the spreader bar that attaches to the pivot bracket is teflon and the bushes used in the other spreader bar is polyurethane. The same grade of product that would be used in automotive suspension applications. We also used a "T" nut for the bolt to screw into and this would lock the bush up in the tube.

By the way HSE SA used polyurethane on both spreader bars and the bolt would only be screwed into the polyurethane.

Point 7. There was a comment regarding strange markings on bolts. Sorry, we use 304 grade stainless steel on all product. (you can get a magnet and check if you like) With reference to having a bolt strip. If you did, it could have been what is called Galling -Thread galling occurs during installation when pressure and friction cause bolt threads to seize to the threads of a nut or tapped hole. It is also known as "cold welding". Once a fastener has seized up from galling it is typically impossible to remove without cutting the bolt or splitting the nut.

In summary: I am confused as to how you guys can make comments about inferior product if you don't know what the product was to start off with. You also have not had any dealings with HSE SA. The photos on my Australia site are my photos. I can assure you that HSE SA did very little to provide photos. You will also find a number of my images on any Google Image search. By the way the video of the awning opening was done at a venue outside of Sydney. You will also find a video of me opening a tent in the tent pages of the website as well as YouTube.

The last comment I will make is that other than the clamp bracket which is attached to the pivot bracket and could have been ordered with it. The supply of the Australian canvas which has excellent waterproofness and qualities to prevent abrasion and our tweak with the bushes and T nuts the Australian made awning would be almost identical to what HSE SA would have supplied.

I have attached a number of file photos for your review.

badfysh, if you still have the awning in the box you can contact me to discuss installation as you should have done 10 months ago.

My contact details for anyone who wishes to discuss further this or any other issue or product from HSE Australia is peter@hannibalsafari.com.au Ph: +61 408 887 442.

For additional comment you could follow my business on Facebook "Hannibal Safari Equipment Australia"
 

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