Handgun Hunting story.

007

Explorer
On my last trip I decided to take advantage of my hunting license and harvest game to supplement my meals during and after the trip. I had some wonderful grouse and wild mushrooms fried in beer, but also took a deer.

Funny thing about the deer, it just so happened that I got close enough to a mule deer buck that I felt confident in taking it with my .40 caliber Glock. I shot it in the top of the head as it was grazing and it went down instantly. I was too far from camp to drag the entire deer, so I skinned it and cut all the muscles from the bone and put it in a sack.

Anyway, its common for muscles to twitch after killing a deer, but this was different. Every muscle seemed to be twitching during the whole boning out process - as if the deer was still alive. I could see right were the bullet entered the deers head so I knew it was dead, but it just seemed odd. Finally the twitching stopped and I proceeded to skin the head and to my amazement the bullet didn't even penetrate the skull! it didn't glance off, (it was a direct shot) it just failed to penetrate the bone. The bullet was a winchester hollow point and it completely disintegrated under the hide leaving a circular dimple on the bone but no hole! Poor deer was knocked out while I was stealing his meat!

Just thought I would share that with those of you interested in ballistics as it has changed my opinion on using hollow points. I think modern hollow points are way too soft and could fail in many situations (including self defense) I think I'll switch to nosler partitions for better performance.
 

OTR

Adventurer
That's why you make another "fatal" shot at close range to make sure that it's dead. This is what I would do if I was hunting with a smaller round than needed to make a clean kill. Imagine your surprise if it jumped up and starting kicking you when you made you initial cut with your knife. I imagine that it was dead or you would have noticed that it was still breathing when you skinned it.
 

chet

island Explorer
always use a knife on the neck to finish the deer off and to let it bleed out.
 

MoGas

Central Scrutinizer
That's why you make another "fatal" shot at close range to make sure that it's dead. This is what I would do if I was hunting with a smaller round than needed to make a clean kill. Imagine your surprise if it jumped up and starting kicking you when you made you initial cut with your knife. I imagine that it was dead or you would have noticed that it was still breathing when you skinned it.

Rule #2: The Double Tap
 

Fireman78

Expedition Leader
"Failure Drill" next time.. two the body, one to the head. Then apply handcuffs. Then read deer it's rights.. :sombrero:
 

howell_jd

Adventurer
This is the type of post that gives hunters a bad reputation. Taking big-game with a small caliber pistol, let alone an underpowered small caliber pistol is unethical. I abhor such a posting as this. I would normally not make such a showing of distaste on the ExPo but this is beyond cruelty and reeks of sensationalism as well.

The author would have us to believe that he "skinned...and cut all the muscles from the the bone" of a still living animal - a MULE DEER BUCK at that (about 200lbs on average I would imagine - no small task...skinning requires rolling an animal of this size without the use of a gambrel). While I have indeed seen an animal skinned alive on the internet thanks to GreenPeace and PETA (although such eco-terrorist organizations have sufficient ill-repute to lead any to question their altruism), most hunters would in fact field-dress a deer to properly cool the meat and gain access to the most desirable cuts - namely the backstrap. Field dressing removes all the vital organs - but more importantly - the entrails to prevent tainting the meat. Removal of the organs is certain to render an animal dead and any uncertainty would be exposed by the visible pumping blood, functioning respiration, and (not quite a small spasm) muscle twitching.

I've seen my share of hit deer that kept going. I suspect that there are even cases of a stunned deer from a handgun shot but this just doesn't sound legitimate to me. Hollow point usage in hunting - for self defense perhaps but against the two-legged variety of predator not game. A hollow point is designed to do just what the author describes rapid expansion and massive transfer of energy in a short space. Spitzer rounds penetrate and normally an ethical shot is to double lung, liver, heart (if you are extremely accurate and LUCKY or fully equipped with optics and known ranges). An ethical pistol range is equivalent to bow-hunting range...like 35 yards or less.

I question the full truthfulness of the posting - perhaps there are elements of truth - I am not however impugning character here...plenty of folks exaggerate and I hope that is a case of sensationalism at worst.

I think the posting should be removed. What are the hunting requirements in Montana (if this is where the hunt occured)? I've hunted LOTS of places and in addition to a license I had to have a big game tag for the game animal I was hunting. Hunter safety courses abound in scope and professionalism but I would hazard a guess that .40cal ammunition (and HOLLOW POINT?) is NEVER recommended for large game ETHICALLY and/or perhaps LEGALLY.

I request that the moderators take the post down before this causes problems for our community.

I am a hunter. I would NEVER do this. I would never hunt with someone who would do this. I don't condone the actions of someone who would do this.

Bad, bad, bad.

Jonathan
 
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howell_jd

Adventurer
If this thread was started as a release from a painful experience then I sincerely offer my apologies for misunderstanding the context. I genuinely do understand morbid humor and have indeed myself used it (to my chagrin on some occasions).

To the OP: Is this a case of morbid humor? My apologies if so.

If not...

Perhaps not ILLEGAL, debatably MORAL - (I like animals too - especially BBQ'd), but not an ETHICAL way to conduct a hunt.

And again, in EITHER case - I suspect that a certain degree of exaggeration is at play here.

Jonathan

P.S. I am trying not to be indignant in this case - certainly I am not trying to be self-righteous nor sarcastic but instead authentic and sincere in my advocacy for 2d Amendment rights coupled with responsible firearms safety and hunters' public image (much as for those of us here who believe in the "Tread Lightly" philosophy).
 

Ursidae69

Expedition Leader
Disturbing thread to say the least. I hope you were kidding, if you weren't, you should delete your thread and take a hunting class. I came here for updates on the Congo thread, I'm sorry I looked around elsewhere. :smilies27
 

007

Explorer
This is the type of post that gives hunters a bad reputation. Taking big-game with a small caliber pistol, let alone an underpowered small caliber pistol is unethical. I abhor such a posting as this. I would normally not make such a showing of distaste on the ExPo but this is beyond cruelty and reeks of sensationalism as well.

.40 caliber is not small, thats nearly a half inch bore diameter. Its muzzle energy is sufficient to kill a deer without doubt. The type of bullet used is what caused the lack of penetration. But I don't think anybody would expect a .40 caliber from 10 yards away not to break the skull of a deer. Deer have thin skulls like humans, not bears.

The author would have us to believe that he "skinned...and cut all the muscles from the the bone" of a still living animal - a MULE DEER BUCK at that (about 200lbs on average I would imagine - no small task...skinning requires rolling an animal of this size without the use of a gambrel). While I have indeed seen an animal skinned alive on the internet thanks to GreenPeace and PETA (although such eco-terrorist organizations have sufficient ill-repute to lead any to question their altruism), most hunters would in fact field-dress a deer to properly cool the meat and gain access to the most desirable cuts - namely the backstrap. Field dressing removes all the vital organs - but more importantly - the entrails to prevent tainting the meat. Removal of the organs is certain to render an animal dead and any uncertainty would be exposed by the visible pumping blood, functioning respiration, and (not quite a small spasm) muscle twitching.

You are not at all experienced at hunting if you believe an animal has to be gutted to gain access to the backstraps. Backstraps are on the outside of the skeleton not the inside. I can bone a deer out in under thirty minutes, removing the entrails would do absolutley nothing. You only remove the insides if you plan on hauling the entire carcass and leaving the meat on the bones for an extended period. I've done this procedure well over 50 times, many experienced hunters butcher on the spot and leave the hide and bones in the field

I've seen my share of hit deer that kept going. I suspect that there are even cases of a stunned deer from a handgun shot but this just doesn't sound legitimate to me. Hollow point usage in hunting - for self defense perhaps but against the two-legged variety of predator not game. A hollow point is designed to do just what the author describes rapid expansion and massive transfer of energy in a short space. Spitzer rounds penetrate and normally an ethical shot is to double lung, liver, heart (if you are extremely accurate and LUCKY or fully equipped with optics and known ranges). An ethical pistol range is equivalent to bow-hunting range...like 35 yards or less.

What doesn't sound legitimate? A head shot is the most ethical, and I was much closer than 35 yards. You seem to think the deer suffered through this event? I can assure you that it was fully knocked out or it would have moved a limb or tried to get up at some point. The brainstem probably had a flicker of life in it because the deer didn't die from blood loss which would explain the muscle twitch

I question the full truthfulness of the posting - perhaps there are elements of truth - I am not however impugning character here...plenty of folks exaggerate and I hope that is a case of sensationalism at worst.

Don't get so upset about it if you think it never happened.

I request that the moderators take the post down before this causes problems for our community.

I disagree, I posted this so that other people would realize just how fragile modern hollow points can be. I underestimated the performance of these bullets, luckily it worked out fine - the deer was KO'd and never felt a thing. Others reading this will gain some insight, and maybe choose differently. Hollow points are used extensively in hunting, you should be a little more informed before saying so much

I am a hunter. I would NEVER do this. I would never hunt with someone who would do this. I don't condone the actions of someone who would do this.

Bad, bad, bad.

I am all for the clean kill buddy, I just assumed shooting a deer in the head with a high powered pistol would do more than it did, get over it.
 

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