Guidance on installing large full picture windows/patio door on an Expedition truck box.

Hello all!

So I've been designing out my future home module that can be moved from one vehicle platform to the next with just a few connections removed. I'm still working out my envelope conditions and framing. At the moment in terms of budget I'm looking at a solid welded steel frame with rigid insulation and an aluminum exterior skin.

I work as an Architect during the 9-5, so I'm fairly well versed in terms of construction practices, The main drawback of my field is everything I design is placed on concrete foundations. Not so much on a truck chassis that will be experiencing constant forces while in use.

So, for my rig I am wanting a solid enclosed box for security purposes, with a fold down deck that will fold up flush with the box, and covering a main full picture window/patio door. I am looking at having a Window custom fabricated from Anderson Windows. Size being approx. 60" wide, 80" tall. I plan on using this rig in mountainous regions, and want the natural light and panoramic views that such a window can provide. The biggest concern that I have is the flexing of the frame, and vibrations that may negatively impact the window's functionality. I'm lacking in experience in terms of the physics acting on an Expedition truck's box, and am wondering if someone here could tell me what the limitations are in terms of window size. If there's a high chance that such a large window could break under forces, I may need to look at another route.

Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.
 

yabanja

Explorer
I would stick to an RV style window. They can be purchased in fairly large sizes. The rounded corners help prevent breakage as of course does the tempered glass. I purchased mine quite reasonably on eBay from overstock sellers.

Allan
 

SkiFreak

Crazy Person
The trick here is to try and reduce the torsional twisting of the camper box as much as is possible.
That can be achieved in numerous ways, but normally involves the choice of wheels and tyres, the suspension setup and incorporating some form of kinematic mounting system between the chassis and camper subframe.
A large window at either end of the camper should encounter less twisting forces, opposed to any mounted on the sides, which should help you.

Personally, I do not know if I would use tempered glass. My preference would be laminated glass, as it is more structural (take modern car windscreens as an example, as they are now structural components in the vehicle).
An alternative is using something like plexiglass/lexan, which would be pretty bullet proof, but potentially it could get scratched more easily.

It also comes down to where you plan on taking the vehicle. If you just plan on some minor excursions on forestry roads, or if you want to tackle the wilds, will determine how you need to do your build.

Your choice of building materials is pretty much last century. There are much better options these days, which are lighter and stronger.
Composites, in my opinion, are a much better option.
 

billiebob

Well-known member
Hello all!

So I've been designing out my future home module that can be moved from one vehicle platform to the next with just a few connections removed. I'm still working out my envelope conditions and framing. At the moment in terms of budget I'm looking at a solid welded steel frame with rigid insulation and an aluminum exterior skin.

I work as an Architect during the 9-5, so I'm fairly well versed in terms of construction practices, The main drawback of my field is everything I design is placed on concrete foundations. Not so much on a truck chassis that will be experiencing constant forces while in use.

So, for my rig I am wanting a solid enclosed box for security purposes, with a fold down deck that will fold up flush with the box, and covering a main full picture window/patio door. I am looking at having a Window custom fabricated from Anderson Windows. Size being approx. 60" wide, 80" tall. I plan on using this rig in mountainous regions, and want the natural light and panoramic views that such a window can provide. The biggest concern that I have is the flexing of the frame, and vibrations that may negatively impact the window's functionality. I'm lacking in experience in terms of the physics acting on an Expedition truck's box, and am wondering if someone here could tell me what the limitations are in terms of window size. If there's a high chance that such a large window could break under forces, I may need to look at another route.

Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.
You don't need the high tech features of a modern double glazed window in an 80sqft RV. But if you must....

Vibration will be the issue. My budget built OSB BOX used the old 1/4" thick plate glass sliders from the 1960s. We demolished a house, I kept 2 windows. An experiment for the first year but 6 years later they survive. My BOX is all wood so more resilient that solid welded steel and mounted in a massive bed of silicone for more vibration absorbtion. As an architect you likely have better ideas but the big obstacle will be stopping vibration from fracturing the glass..... then protecting it from rocks.

The first thing I would do is make that massive glazing. 60x80, into 4 parts, 30x40. And mount them in lots of silicone. Could still be one frame but four separate sealed units. The deck covering the window is a must.

IMG_0907.jpg

I'd also worry about crashing thru an 80" tall window in a drunken stupor while camping.
Cool tho this is.... it goes against everything I've learned in construction.
But the logo is a killer design.

Love Grandads hair.
40e10196ee2dd773faed085f359c4040--vintage-campers-vintage-trailers.jpg
 
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The Artisan

Adventurer
Although I never practiced I have an Architecture degree as well. I started building and testing sips years ago. I have decided to use 1/4" and 1/2" scratch resistant makrolon to make my own folding windows. A large plate glass of your size would have a good chance of cracking in a pod could even be from racking or a simple rock. Might look into 4x8 1/2" Makro or Lexan
Kevin
 
All good points to consider.

For further clarification in terms of window placement, as a few have mentioned that a kicked rock could shatter said Patio door, here are a few 3D views of the project as it sits.

The Patio Door will be just inside this garage/deck area. Planning for space for a few mountain bikes, camping/climbing gear, outdoor workstation, and a few other amenities. I want an easy to deploy porch for a continuation of the living space. The other benefit will be the panoramic views that the patio door will offer, but upon closing the porch ramp, all views into the living space are cut off improving security and privacy.


As far as other box construction, I've looked into Composite panels a bit, but I'm really limited by budget on how advanced I can get. I'd still consider other options if they are within my <$20k budget. I don't plan on doing any super rough off-roading for this rig, I still plan to keep my smaller AWD Astrovan for back country adventures.

3DVIEW1.PNG3DVIEW2.PNG3DVIEW3.PNG
 

billiebob

Well-known member
If you add a slide..... you are on an unlimited budget. And the canted rear cutoff altho kinda popular has zero practicality. On a budget, thinking of economy of operation, stick to the tear drop shape, at least 80 years old for good reason. The chopped off tail is a trend. Aerodynamics have never changed.

From planes to land speed record cars, the current vogue of the chopped off tail is just a bad trend....
Not even suited to overlanding if one looks at the real dynamics of the weight distribution.
But it is where we are and will be defended blindly by the converted.

Unknown.jpeg
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
regardless of installation method, for such a large window in this application I would strongly recommend spending the money on a proper laminated glass.
 

Andy Hino

New member
I would not have an issue building a large opening like that. As others have already said, torsion forces need to be reduced as far as possible and then build the opening as a portal frame.
Im sure you would know at least a couple of engineers who could design the frame for you. I dont think it will even need to be that strong because you still have the rear door that is pretty close and will take some of the load while on the (off) road
 

The Artisan

Adventurer
I like the concept, what if you make a sliding glass door out of lexan. Not to sure of the kick out as the front could get snagged. Maybe angle it back in to deflect if it were to take a hit. To support the porch are you going to use slidding tubes and the porch rests on it?
Kevin
 
I like the concept, what if you make a sliding glass door out of lexan. Not to sure of the kick out as the front could get snagged. Maybe angle it back in to deflect if it were to take a hit. To support the porch are you going to use slidding tubes and the porch rests on it?
Kevin


I'm seriously considering building my own sliding glass door, doors in general are time consuming to build, but buying one in the configuration I would prefer will cost $2000+ (A very significant portion of my budget). I can build one for significantly less and I'll learn a new skill. Lexan would be preferred as there is so much of a lesser chance of cracking. It really will come down to weather or not I can make my own double pane windows, and find a way to fabricate the door track system, while keeping an airtight seal around the exterior. The other aspect I left out before, is I want this to be a full frame window as I'm planning on moving to the mountains, and want a door that's weatherproofed to keep the heat in while the deck is down.
3DVIEW4.PNG
As for your comment on the kick out, I am planning on building the back deck to be on large hinges, and have it be able to fold up flush with the rear of the box. Added a photo to explain what the module would look like when driving down the road. I am planning on installing fixed length removable braces. to keep the back deck at a certain angle when It's deployed. This is the theory anyways, I have no idea how it will work in practice, so I may design out a plan B to use camper jack stands to support the rear deck. I will be figuring out some sort of system with an ATV winch to raise and lower it.

3DVIEW5.PNG
 

The Artisan

Adventurer
Use a pella sliding door design and just use lexan in its place. Also a slide support like this with a welded tube across could pull out and support that platform20220309_184332.jpg
Kevin
 

Joe917

Explorer
That is probably the worst place you could put the door. Side to side movement is the most violent. A slider will not last long. You have also set the door back so that the sidewalls obscure your view. That volume outside the door is wasted space where every cubic foot counts. Steel is heavy and thermally poor. Go with composite panels, rethink the budget.
 
Use a pella sliding door design and just use lexan in its place. Also a slide support like this with a welded tube across could pull out and support that platform
Kevin


That may be the ticket in terms of a door design, Lexan would be a far better candidate instead of Glass. I will be doing more research on this.

Also that sliding tube system is perfect, You are already working the magic. I have an 8" subfloor cavity that I'm sure I could fit





That is probably the worst place you could put the door. Side to side movement is the most violent. A slider will not last long. You have also set the door back so that the sidewalls obscure your view. That volume outside the door is wasted space where every cubic foot counts. Steel is heavy and thermally poor. Go with composite panels, rethink the budget.



Yeah rethinking door construction, Do not think a glass patio door will be the move. The obscured view is a thought, but I want a garage space to keep a few mountain bikes, climbing gear, camping gear, firewood, etc. I'll be doing some 3D renders in the coming weeks and will better determine what kind of interruption to the view the sidewalls cause, and will consider alternative layouts. I'll take another look at going the composite panel route, or even look at building my own SIPS system, but the budget is already higher than the original amount. I'm still young and have some student loans to pay, 20k is all I can afford to set aside for this home. At least at first. I'm planning a 3 stage build system, stage 1 being livable, stage 2 being presentable, and stage 3 being complete. The stage 1.5 ish could be the 20k budget, with stage 2-3 being anything over that. All is up for consideration at this point, but I know I want to build something wild, even if that means drawbacks in the performance category, it's just the designer in me. It's not really my style to just make a standard box or other simple economic structure. I'll have more money to make a proper high end build for my second build in a few years time.
 
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We all have out thoughts of what we want.

My experience and what you are showing for the deck may not work out the way you want. Without the measurements I will guess that the door/deck will be about 6' to 7' wide and project out about the same. That is a small deck to get 2 chairs on and be able to get past them and in through the door. The best way is to get a piece of plywood the size of the deck area and set your chairs on it and see. Place some 2" X 4" wood on edge and place the plywood on it up off the ground to get a actual feel for it. Remember it will be in the air and you will need safety room so the chairs need to be in from the edge. If you will only have a single person on the deck you should be fine. This is just things to think about.

Yeah the deck is small, 6' - 8" long and 5'- 7" wide (I am looking at alternatives to widening it to 7-8') . I am currently planning out building some custom furniture that will be integrated into either the deck itself or the back of the box, that can be folded up as thin as possible, as to fit seamlessly into the garage space to waste as little space as possible. I don't want to use prebought camping chairs or anything else as there is the fall risk as you said, but also because they wouldn't fit as easily with 2 people. For the most part it will just be me using it though.
 

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