Gen 2/2.5 Pajero/Montero Front Ball Joint Flip - Good or bad?

[Symmetry 4WD]

Hi all,

as the title states, I've heard a lot of good and bad regarding the Front Control Arm Ball Joint Flip that some owners do to their cars to gain some lift and articulation, especially in conjunction with re-indexing and cranking up torsion bars (this is not part of the discussion though).

I have also heard that it is dangerous, not advised to do this, which I am most concerned about.
Has anyone here done it, and could any of you knowledgeable individuals please enlighten me as to what can be gained by doing this and what can be lost (negative)?

Thanks! ?

 

[plh]

in general a bad, very bad idea no matter what vehicle.

 

[Herdwick]

Well, I'm planing doing mine and adding a spacer as well, appart from disrupting geometry on full compression I don't see any issue as long as you can get the ride height alignement within reasonable numbers

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

Well, I'm planing doing mine and adding a spacer as well, appart from disrupting geometry on full compression I don't see any issue as long as you can get the ride height alignement within reasonable numbers

Would like to hear your thoughts once you have done it!

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

in general a bad, very bad idea no matter what vehicle.

Could you explain further please?

 

[Herdwick]

Thinking of starting a build thread on my gen1, as I'm getting a conversion from a gen2 with rear lockers and 5.285 ratios. But definently will let you know.

The reason many don't agree with the ball joint flip is because the joint is no longer secured in the uca if you do the flip. If by any means the bolts that hold the ball joint break/shear the whole assembly will fall apart. But on another note I've seen many tie rods/ball joints fall of their socket or break from the rod end or stud and far less if any torn appart from the mounting point or sheared bolts on an uca/lca or struts for that matter.

 

[plh]

Could you explain further please?

It puts stresses on the ball joints and bolts in areas that are beyond design intent, plus it also makes the front end difficult to align properly. I doubt any brick and mortar shop would even do an alignment for you (liability), so you would be on your own for that. But as they say - you do you

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

Thinking of starting a build thread on my gen1, as I'm getting a conversion from a gen2 with rear lockers and 5.285 ratios. But definently will let you know.

The reason many don't agree with the ball joint flip is because the joint is no longer secured in the uca if you do the flip. If by any means the bolts that hold the ball joint break/shear the whole assembly will fall apart. But on another note I've seen many tie rods/ball joints fall of their socket or break from the rod end or stud and far less if any torn appart from the mounting point or sheared bolts on an uca/lca or struts for that matter.

Thanks for explaining.

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

It puts stresses on the ball joints and bolts in areas that are beyond design intent, plus it also makes the front end difficult to align properly. I doubt any brick and mortar shop would even do an alignment for you (liability), so you would be on your own for that. But as they say - you do you

Thanks for explaining, I am by no means jumping at this just to do it, I just wanted to find out why people do it and for what reasons.

One thing I am still unclear on is what is there to be gained by doing it?

 

[plh]

Thanks for explaining, I am by no means jumping at this just to do it, I just wanted to find out why people do it and for what reasons.

One thing I am still unclear on is what is there to be gained by doing it?

you will probably gain the chance of more broken tie rods and CV joint issues. I've heard of people doing it - where do you see information of people successfully doing it on a Gen 2 / 2.5 Pajero/Montero?

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

you will probably gain the chance of more broken tie rods and CV joint issues. I've heard of people doing it - where do you see information of people successfully doing it on a Gen 2 / 2.5 Pajero/Montero?

Seen it from people on the local Pajero groups who have done it to their vehicles.

In all seriousness though, what are people trying to gain? They say articulation and lift, is this true?

 

[Herdwick]

Better ride when you crank up the torsion bars as it allows more down travel, slightly better articulation but It doesn’t lift the vechicle, you can keep the stock ride height and still flip the ball joint. Cv's can last if you don't go crazy on big tires and heavy on the throttle. tie rods as long as they don't bind at full articulation while steered are fine as well, you get roughly the same life expectancy as any other hard driven offroader,

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

Better ride when you crank up the torsion bars as it allows more down travel, slightly better articulation but It doesn’t lift the vechicle, you can keep the stock ride height and still flip the ball joint. Cv's can last if you don't go crazy on big tires and heavy on the throttle. tie rods as long as they don't bind at full articulation while steered are fine as well, you get roughly the same life expectancy as any other hard driven offroader,

Thanks for you input, have you done this yourself on your vehicle? So from what you have said, contrary to the other posts submitted here, there aren't many negative effects if all is kept in check?

 

[Herdwick]

Well, it does affect wheel geometry, it gives you more neg camber when compressed and messes up the factory wheel alignement settings, not sure if it’s for the better or not, you need to take a better look at the specific wheel system. And adjust it accordingly, if possible. I'm a solid axle guy my self and paj is my first ifs experiment and quite exited about it. Never messed on an ifs, some friends did on some yotas but with not great results...

 

[Symmetry 4WD]

Well, it does affect wheel geometry, it gives you more neg camber when compressed and messes up the factory wheel alignement settings, not sure if it’s for the better or not, you need to take a better look at the specific wheel system. And adjust it accordingly, if possible. I'm a solid axle guy my self and paj is my first ifs experiment and quite exited about it. Never messed on an ifs, some friends did on some yotas but with not great results...

Ah, ok

Just for everyone to be aware, I don't think a ball joint flip is something I would personally want to do myself to my car.
But I am still interested as to why other people do/don't do it. Just to clear that up, just trying to educate myself