front wheel wobble, videos included, need halp

[Hodor]

Hey guys I just recently installed 37x13.5r17 toyos onto my 2012 fuso. This week I drove it about 800 miles to pick up the habitat box I'm going to be using for my camper, and the trucks steering not only wobbles Terribly, but the steering pulls HARD to the right. Like, If I release the wheel I drive off the road immediately.

Prior to the install I had the alignment and front end looked at by two different shops here in the states, one in Las Vegas and an isuzu\mack dealer in Amarillo Texas. The truck pulled all the way home from Houston (about 5k miles) on stock wheels and tires, so the problems just feel exacerbated by the heavier wheels and larger tires now.

I'm under the impression my tie rods are shite, but when I lift the front end I can't get any play out of them.
That being said, I CAN shake the entire setup back and forth through all components up to the steering gearbox, and I'm not sure how I can remedy this.

Seeking advice and guidance from the gurus

Front wheel wobble

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[Hodor]

The shops couldn't find anything wrong with my front end, they didn't seem to know what they were doing. Alignment checked out both times within spec, but my truck still pulled regardless.

I'm wondering if my hubs might be bent, but I have no idea where to take this truck to have someone work on it that would know anything.

 

[kerry]

Have you switched wheels right to left?

 

[kerry]

Also search on death wobble here

 

[NMBruce]

Could be tire pull, Kerry said, switch the tires

 

[Hodor]

I've switched the wheels side to side in order to verify the wobble is not in the wheel. I will re-read the articles on death wobble.

I'm curious if the video showing the ease of moving the tie rod ends is normal. I've never had them this loose on any other trucks I've owned.

 

[MJCake1]

Are there any blocks/wedges used on the front end. Mine used to wobble at 65mph and pull right all the time too. I took it to
Firebird Truck & Auto Body, in Phoenix.
(602) 269-2518

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We ended up taking the blocks out and she drove nice after that, crusin 75mph straight and smooth.

 

[Simons]

A pull is caused by either excessive castor or camber but never toe, so even if your tie rods were bad they would have nothing to do with your pull. What you’re showing in the videos is not play in the tie rods, that’s normal, they are a ball and socket designed to do that. If there’s actual looseness in the joint where the ball can move side to side or up and down in the socket then you have an issue. As far as the runout you’re showing with the tires spinning it’s difficult to say. It doesn’t appear to be a lot, like a shifted belt would have. Can you determine if the rims have the same runout or are they spinning true and it’s all in the tires?
Are you running balancing sand or beads in the front tires?
Oh and MJ above makes a very good point about the wedges, they’d affect your castor, picture that wobbly wheel on a shopping cart.


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[Mat Mobile]

I agree with @Simons that the rotating movement of the tie-rod is normal. But they do look like they might need a little bit more grease as they should be a little bit harder to rotate (hard to tell on a video). Sorry this doesn't really help out with the actual issue.

 

[yabanja]

Get some giant pliers. Squeeze together all the ball joints in the steering system. If any of them squeeze together at all replace them. Then take it to a proper medium duty alignment shop whether you find play or not. Tell them what is going on.

As a side note, this is not at all normal for these trucks. My wife feels comfortable in strong side winds at 80 mph in our truck. If you let go of the wheel it tracks straight.

Allan

 

[Hodor]

Thank you all for your insight and help. I feel much more informed now to take this issue to another alignment shop.

I asked some Facebook groups (I know I know) and some folks seem to think that my wheel bearings could be loose or bad because the wheels are free spinning in excess of what their used to seeing with their vehicles.

At this point I'm thinking several things are going on
1. Airbags installed by P.O. have changed castor angle in a bad way on the front (will be removed when new leafs are installed)
2. Possible front brake drum issue
3. Possible wheel bearing issue

Wheels were made from a guy who has done many wheels for these fusos, so I think it unlikely that something could be wrong with the actual wheels themselves. I took some rough measurements and and things look to line up correctly as far as backspacing goes.

I'm going to search my local area for medium duty truck shops tomorrow. Perhaps if they don't do alignments they can help me in some other way.

Thank you all.

 

[skippythedog]

Wheels made by "some guy"........

How were the tires balanced?...Is there a chance that a tape weight is smashed between the drum and wheel? Don't laugh...Earthcruiser had exactly those problems on some of their wheels which they had built in Hong Kong.....they might have been 16's though. No one would talk about it much....just a possibility. I disagree with the tire pull theory of only being caused by caster or camber....caster will do it but camber would have to be crazy to have any effect. Toe in will cause it....obviously if one tire is splayed out, it's gonna pull. This is something you can check easily...jack the front tires just clear of the ground. (Shake the wheels in and out with hands on top and bottom and also at 3 and 9 oclock psoition to check for bearing slop) Prop a pen or chalk against the center of the tire and spin it around. You can scratch a mark with small screwdriver or awl too. Repeat on the other side While the truck is up, Jam your shoulder against the front of one tire and shove the other tire out with your foot to check for play. Also prop that pen or sharp object very close to the edge of each rim and spin the wheels using the pen thingy as a reference to see if the wheel runs relatively true.. ....Lower the truck. Measure the distance between the lines at the front of the tires and at the rear...They should be equal-ish or 1/8" or even a quarter inch narrower in the front (toe in)......If they are anything other than this, they could pull any which way as exacerbated by any shortcomings in your front end parts.

Now, just for ********** and giggles turn your wheels all the way to one side. Measure again.....note the difference is now about 4.5".....This is known as toe in on turns and is somewhat indigenous to Fusos....it's what gives them their great turning radius but can also result in much accelerated tire wear if you're making a lot of parking lot turns etc....It's actually been a source of complaints to certain Fuso dealers, some of which have even swapped out front axles to make a customer shut up......If you're getting near 800 miles with such radical pulling, some tire wear should be evident. This toe in on turns is not related to your problem but again, can contribute to tire wear which will send all sorts of "experts" looking for other problems if they are not aware of this anomaly in the Fusos.

 

[skippythedog]

Update:......I wrote that diatribe before watching your films........I see no problem with your joints....that flexibility is part of what's required to get that radical toe in on turns that I described......However... I could clearly see a wobble in both your rims....I also could not see any evidence of any tire weights on the insides of your rims....which leads me to believe there are some tape weights inboard of my line of sight which may be contacting the drum.....I highly suspect that (if you're not using ceramic beads) you are suffering from the same problem that plagued the Earthcruiser wheels....tape weights that are preventing the wheel from seating properly on the drum.....Yard out all the tape weights in there and drive the truck again....

 

[skippythedog]

Derp....more. I also missed the part about your problem being present with the stock setup. Shoot me. There are a couple more possibilities...Let's hope it's the first one or two. One: debris/rust under drums keeping drums from seating. Two: Did some overzealous tire guy bend the flange with his giant one inch air ratchet spitting out 1200lbs? Torque spec is 325 to 398 ft lbs. on the FG lug nuts. I torque mine with a 4 foot long torque wrench that I bought from an Army tank mechanic. Here is a question I do not have the answer to. When looking for the debris under the drum, is the drum "hub centric" or "lug centric?" All truck drums are one or the other. I suspect the Fuso drums are lug centric, meaning they center up on bevels on the lugs instead of on the center hub. Check for rust in both areas. One item which wil help your quest is a "disc brake runout meter," $48 bucks on Amazon. Or you can simply jig up a solid metal pointer on the ground to point at the drum/hub/spindle and simply measure the runout with feeler guages....

On a sad note: While consulting my service manual CD for torque spec. I ran across a troubleshooting chart in the axle section where the symptom of steering wheel pull (relating to axle) had only one fault "bent spindle".....

Now on a brighter note: My FG suffered a horrific crash. On a freeway at 65mph on a dark stormy night my 37" left front tire ate a piece of steel from a broken semi truck leaf spring slicing the tire in half instantly. I bounced off both walls of a 2 lane freeway finally taking out the center jersey barrier flattening my new Australian wheel (pic attached) and ripping the entire axle out from underneath the truck......my spindle still wasn't bent. I simply can't imagine that you would suffer two of them. When the dealer was doing the repair, I insisted on taking my spindle to a local aircraft facility to have it magnafluxed to check for cracks and trueness. The machinist literally laughed at me and wondered out loud that that stout part could even be bent. He tapped it a few times, dropped it from a few inches onto the concrete floor to listen to the tone and told me to go home and enjoy it.

My apologies for not thoroughly reading about your condition but when I saw the new wheel thing, I automatically assumed that was the problem. All that stuff I listed was real World stuff that happened to other people. Some were outlined on this forum.

Be systematic. Find out what's bent. Work your way in from the wheel. Mark the high spot on the wheel, mark the tip of the corresponding or nearest tire lug/stud to see if they remain consistant or to rule out problems that can cancel each other out or double up to make things worse.

 

[yabanja]

Derp....more. I also missed the part about your problem being present with the stock setup. Shoot me. There are a couple more possibilities...Let's hope it's the first one or two. One: debris/rust under drums keeping drums from seating. Two: Did some overzealous tire guy bend the flange with his giant one inch air ratchet spitting out 1200lbs? Torque spec is 325 to 398 ft lbs. on the FG lug nuts. I torque mine with a 4 foot long torque wrench that I bought from an Army tank mechanic. Here is a question I do not have the answer to. When looking for the debris under the drum, is the drum "hub centric" or "lug centric?" All truck drums are one or the other. I suspect the Fuso drums are lug centric, meaning they center up on bevels on the lugs instead of on the center hub. Check for rust in both areas. One item which wil help your quest is a "disc brake runout meter," $48 bucks on Amazon. Or you can simply jig up a solid metal pointer on the ground to point at the drum/hub/spindle and simply measure the runout with feeler guages....

On a sad note: While consulting my service manual CD for torque spec. I ran across a troubleshooting chart in the axle section where the symptom of steering wheel pull (relating to axle) had only one fault "bent spindle".....

Now on a brighter note: My FG suffered a horrific crash. On a freeway at 65mph on a dark stormy night my 37" left front tire ate a piece of steel from a broken semi truck leaf spring slicing the tire in half instantly. I bounced off both walls of a 2 lane freeway finally taking out the center jersey barrier flattening my new Australian wheel (pic attached) and ripping the entire axle out from underneath the truck......my spindle still wasn't bent. I simply can't imagine that you would suffer two of them. When the dealer was doing the repair, I insisted on taking my spindle to a local aircraft facility to have it magnafluxed to check for cracks and trueness. The machinist literally laughed at me and wondered out loud that that stout part could even be bent. He tapped it a few times, dropped it from a few inches onto the concrete floor to listen to the tone and told me to go home and enjoy it.

My apologies for not thoroughly reading about your condition but when I saw the new wheel thing, I automatically assumed that was the problem. All that stuff I listed was real World stuff that happened to other people. Some were outlined on this forum.

Be systematic. Find out what's bent. Work your way in from the wheel. Mark the high spot on the wheel, mark the tip of the corresponding or nearest tire lug/stud to see if they remain consistant or to rule out problems that can cancel each other out or double up to make things worse.

WoW! Pretty serious accident sounds like. Glad you were ok. Would like to see more pics of the damage.

I will second the "systematic" approach and reiterate the need to get some giant pliers and check all of your steering linkages.

Allan