Ford Ranger and Bronco Coming back! Crosses fingers

[RoyJ]

Now granted, the Flex exists and it's never sold more than 40k units per year, and the Expedition sells less than 80k units since 2008. However, the Flex has never been considered a success (I dunno why they even keep building them) and the Expedition is in many ways a modded F150, so it's easier to build / stock parts for.

Maybe, a US Ford Everest could be a cheap solution, but a US Ford Everest wouldn't really be competition for a JK. Also, Ford's current NA market plan is, to a degree, trying to cut down on models so that it's easier/cheaper to stock parts and build cars. That was part of their reason for taking away the Ranger in the first place.

Some good points made.

I'll add some and say that the Expedition's R&D is fully recouped by now. The current gen came out in 06 as an 07 model, which means R&D occurred in the early 2000's when the SUV boom was still hot. It's now very long in the tooth and the much needed 2015 refresh helped somewhat.

Part of what makes Jeep successful is a combination of heritage, fanbase, and absolutely HUGE aftermarket. All three seems to depend on eachother, and together make the Jeep community what it is. Take the Explorer for instance, it sold in very high numbers in its heyday, but never created an aftermarket remotely the size of Jeep.

Same for the Xterra. A decent IFS off roader, some aftermarket, but not close to Jeep despite some loyal fans. 4runner & FJ, same thing, decent aftermarket, better than Nissan's, but pales in comparison to Jeep. And now, a decade later, the 4runner is the only one left.

Hard to imagine that somehow, Ford can go against all odds, and come out with a worthy competitor to Jeep, capturing all the charisma of the Wrangler. Never mind capturing 70% of Jeep's market...

 

[Martinjmpr]

Mark my words though... The day the Wrangler goes IFS will be the day the brand disappears.

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What if they got rid of the rear solid axle, too and went to IRS? and made it a unibody? And put a single-speed transfer case in it?
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Blasphemy, right? A unibody "jeep" with a single speed T-case and 4 wheel independent suspension wouldn't be a Jeep anymore.
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Oh, wait...
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[justcuz]

Touché' Martin,

In all fairness though there were less than 100,000 M151's built and the government did not sell many to the public because of their oversteer tendencies, even with the re-designed rear swing arms.
Lots of re-engineering would have to take place to make that suitable for public consumption.

4x4 Junkie,

I suspect your campfire conversations about Wranglers weighing in on the solid axle debate is going to be terribly one sided. Serious off readers want a solid axle because it is stupid simple, tougher than stock IFS stuff (generally) and keeps the tradition and heritage of the original. These are the guys who use their Jeeps as designed and intended, they still have a very strong voice in the market. Even though FCA has other products that outsell the Wrangler, I think the solid axle Wrangler is safe until at least the end of the decade.

Jeep right now is FCA's cash cow, I don't think they are going to let the air out of that balloon. My concern is that if FCA tanks, who ever buys FCA will keep the Wrangler but probably dump a lot of other product due to internal competition with their own house branded products. Ford and GM understand the history and heritage part, GM more than anyone I believe, since they have kept and revived product names that have been in existence since the 1950's.

 

[4x4junkie]

4x4 Junkie,

I suspect your campfire conversations about Wranglers weighing in on the solid axle debate is going to be terribly one sided. Serious off readers want a solid axle because it is stupid simple, tougher than stock IFS stuff (generally) and keeps the tradition and heritage of the original. These are the guys who use their Jeeps as designed and intended, they still have a very strong voice in the market. Even though FCA has other products that outsell the Wrangler, I think the solid axle Wrangler is safe until at least the end of the decade.
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Funny, that has precisely been my point this whole entire time here.
People who are serious about going off road are the people who buy Wranglers. With FCA on track to sell nearly 200K Wranglers this year, it's quite obvious that there are a lot of people out there who are serious about going off road...
However my conversations around the campfire were not about solid axles (not as the main focus anyway)... They were about Jeep quality (the lack of it) and why those of us who may be able to afford a new vehicle continue to drive old clunkers with 200K+ miles on them.

And yeah i was gonna make the same comments about the MUTT.
Which BTW, the Jeep Patriot and Compass are also both 4WIS unibodies with no low-range. The Wrangler, with it's "limited" market outsells both of them combined.

Hard to imagine that somehow, Ford can go against all odds, and come out with a worthy competitor to Jeep, capturing all the charisma of the Wrangler. Never mind capturing 70% of Jeep's market...

You don't think the old original Bronco had any charisma?

 

[justcuz]

According to what I've read from other sources tonight 23 to 30% of Wranglers are used for off road recreation.
A much higher percentage than most other vehicles.
For the record I'd drive an early Bronco any day of the week. I'd modernize it some, but would love to own one.
The Ford Flex continues to be built because it shares its D4 platform with about 6 other vehicles, including the new Explorer.
I looked up Wrangler IFS and ultimately got to an Allpar article about a design competition done in the 1990s. They used the early Wagoneer IFS as a baseline (a very interesting design by the way) and basically built a reverse De Dion front IFS.
The suspension engineers came up with a design that was very good, but more costly and too much of an investment at the time.
He said to make the IFS truly competitive with a solid axle, the IFS had to have a minimum of 12" of suspension travel.
They built it under a Cherokee platform and called it Lil Blue. One of the engineers, who remains active in forums said to do the Wrangler IFS economically today, they would probably use Dodge Ram 1500 suspension pieces, modified to work on a Wrangler.
4x4 Junkie, I still don't think it would make economic sense for any other U.S. Manufacturer to build a 2 door SUV, even if it was based off of a 4 door variant. I guess we will just have to keep our Broncos, Blazers, etc. and cross our fingers. The last Bronco Ford had been showing at car shows would definitely not fit your criteria and to do so would require a ton a re-engineering I doubt Ford is willing to invest in.

 

[4x4junkie]

Yes, I do recall their concept Bronco from around 2004 I think it was. It was said to be built on a Ford Escape chassis. Indeed it was not something many would be snapping up to take out into the rugged wilderness (and was widely shunned because of that).

But yeah, fingers crossed... And not holding my breath.

 

[justcuz]

If it happens, I'll celebrate with you, but I bet my homemade beer would go flat before we could drink it waiting for it to happen.

 

[4x4junkie]

lol

:beer: :beer:

 

[deuxdiesel]

In my area, JKU's are fashion accessories for soccer-Mom's who want to look like they are rugged individuals. The vast majority are Sahara's with hard tops that NEVER come off and always have the windows up with the A/C blasting. There are a few around that are built up, but those have been beaten with the ARB stick so they look cool, but almost never go off-road. If you magically replaced the SFA with IFS on most of these Jeeps, the owners would not know the difference, other than that the handled better for the all-pavement driving they do. My point is that the idea of a new Bronco not selling well would have far less to do with the axle configuration than the fact that it wouldn't be a Jeep.

 

[tgreening]

Jeep is like the Legos of the automotive world. There's an aftermarket retailer 30 minutes from my house that carries about every Jeep part known to man. I could walk in and with a fat enough wallet walk back out with everything needed to build a complete Jeep, sans title, and use not a single factory part.

If Jeep dumped that mini-van engine and dropped in a nice little diesel, the market would flood with used JKs because all the fan boys would be unloading em to go after their holy grail, a modern diesel powered Jeep.

 

[Clutch]

According to what I've read from other sources tonight 23 to 30% of Wranglers are used for off road recreation.
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Seems like SideXSides are taking over the offroad world. Jeeps are like Harleys, and image thing...."look at me, I am outdoorsy person" ...." but, I don't change my own oil, that is icky, don't want to get my hands dirty"

Think I see more clapped out Subarus on the back roads than I see Jeeps...

 

[Root Moose]

The solid front axle thing is a red herring to whether a truck will sell IMO. The population at large doesn't care. Most people that use their trucks off road don't really care for the most part any more either.

Around here there is a fairly large contingent of Jeepers and Jeep clubs that go off-road and use their Jeeps for trail riding and what not. The rest of the people that go off-road to go hunting and fishing, etc. use full size trucks and most all of them are IFS. When I see a Jeep in the country side it is with a bunch of guys going into the bush to beat on their Jeep on a trail somewhere. The rest of the vehicles are being used as a work horses to actually do work (hunt, fish, logging, whatever). The type of truck is secondary to payload and comfort.

Different roles, different type of off-road but the ratio of Jeeps to everything else is small.

In my own case I've given up on Jeeps. The JK has a weak a55 tow capacity, rear seats are too small. I'm in a Ford Expedition now and I would never go back to a Jeep for a truck that actually goes places and does work. Sure, the Ford won't go where my over-built Jeep will go but that's the thing... in all the years I've had the Jeep I've never pushed it to it's limits while I've limited myself to what I can do with a vehicle in general.

There is an argument for a Commander or a Grand Cherokee I guess but at this point I'm done with Jeeps. Oh, and they are IFS anyway so there is a lot of other compelling vehicles to consider.

As far as the population at large is concerned, most buy the Jeep JK as a fashion accessory. Hell, any Jeep for that matter. "Look at me, I'm rugged and drive a Jeep" Why the he11 would you buy a new Jeep Compass on purpose otherwise?

Anyway, getting back to the Bronco concept. For myself I've always liked the idea of a full size Bronco with a soft top on the back. In retrospect I wish I had gone that route instead of messing with Suzukis and Jeeps for the last 20+ years. It would make a great camping rig and the back could be set up as a hunting/photo blind. As far as the off-road ability is concerned, if an IFS rig with locked axles and decent tires & suspension can't go where I want to go I have to ask myself where the he11 am I going and why?

If Ford does bring out a Bronco I'll be taking a hard look at it. My Expedition is basically a four door Ford Bronco in my mind. It's got towing capacity, a decently small turning radius and wheelbase for a vehicle of it's size, on 35s it'll go anywhere I'm interested in going while towing a big tent trailer filled with the family and our gear. By the time the Bronco comes out the boys will likely be off to university and the Expedition might need to be retired so a two door Bronco with a removal roof may suit me and my wife again.

2¢

 

[Raylan Givens]

I read a rumor on another site that Bob Sheaves, who was formerly heavily involved in engineering jeeps, was hired to consult with Ford on the possible Bronco. I doubt it will be made, but I would love to see one designed by the Raptor team

 

[4x4junkie]

In my area, JKU's are fashion accessories for soccer-Mom's who want to look like they are rugged individuals. ...
...
If you magically replaced the SFA with IFS on most of these Jeeps, the owners would not know the difference, other than that the handled better for the all-pavement driving they do.

You have to look way beyond the immediate individual picture of a person who doesn't go offroad with it...
Yes, lots of JKs are sold as fashion accessories that never leave pavement... But what is it that makes them such a fashion accessory? It's they're undisputed ability to go off road and get out into the rugged wilderness. What is it that gives them that ability to go offroad and get out into the rugged wilderness? The solid front axle, and the easy aftermarket support such a suspension makes possible.
Take away that axle, and everything else will become mostly irrelevant. Many people will no longer see it for the rugged roots it once had, instead they will see another vehicle with an overcomplicated Erector-Set front suspension like all the rest (just like they did of the FJ Cruiser). So it should go without saying, the rugged image of the vehicle as a fashion accessory would then soon fade away as well.

And FWIW, I also think that only a small minority of JKs are sold to people who actually have no intention at all of taking it off road... I think what happens more often than anything is a person has dreams of going out into the wild when they make the purchase, but then things like work and other obligations get in the way. So the vehicle winds up rarely (if ever) actually hitting the dirt.

 

[justcuz]

I read a rumor on another site that Bob Sheaves, who was formerly heavily involved in engineering jeeps, was hired to consult with Ford on the possible Bronco. I doubt it will be made, but I would love to see one designed by the Raptor team

Bob was the guy along with another who designed and built Lil Blue. Based on the old Wagoneer IFS, reverse DeDion, etc, etc.
It was a cost no object deal and they said they spent 3 million in developement costs on the front axle. He also built and IFS 94 full size Blazer and claims 24 or 28 inches total front axle travel. Did it on his own and cost him 20 thousand. He explained it on an Australian website and I am still trying to visualize how he did it maintaining stock track width..