Ford E350 VSS sensors

[Imbecile]

I cant help but notice all of the ford vans that people have converted to 4x4. A common issue seems to be the need for swapping the outputshaft in the transmission and installing the appropriate tailhousing to mate with the transfercase. Then of course comes the issue of the VSS sensor not working because the trigger wheel is different on the F series 4x4. It seems the solution everyone uses is to buy an electronic gizmo that corrects the signal. My question is, why cant you simply press the trigger wheel off of the 2wd output shaft and press it onto the 4x4 output shaft before installing?

Am i missing something here? Some people have stated they used a 1356 tranfercase instead of the NV271 so as to avoid messing with it. Im confused i guess, i though the 1356 used a mechanical speedometer and i know the ECU wants to see that signal from the VSS. Also what happens when the transfercase is shifted into low? Does it confuse the ECU?

 

[Raul]

I guess it depends on the year and type of engine/transmission. I have a 2010 with the 5.4 gas 4r75e transmission mated to a NV271 with a 2008 F350 Dana 60 front axle. The only issue was the ABS sensors plugs. They are the same but the male plug is on the frame on the van and on the axle on the truck, or vice versa. ABS, stability control and everything else works as it should. On low gears the speedo reads 2.71x faster.

 

[Imbecile]

The post i read was a 4r100 transmission. The OP had to swap the output shaft and tailhousing. It was a complete journey threw his build and travels with his wife and daughters. He touched on all the issues he had with the build and break downs during their travels. He mentioned having problems with the VSS, but i dont recall him posting how he finally got it to work. But my thought was why didnt he just press the trigger wheel off the 2wd shaft and press it onto the 4wd output shaft before installing it in the transmission. I cant seem to find that post now for some reason.

 

[Imbecile]

Here are pics of both the two wheel drive output shaft and a four wheel drive output shaft for the 4R100. The red arrow indicates where the VSS trigger wheel sits. Why cant a person simply remove the trigger wheel from the 4x4 shaft and then press the 2wd trigger wheel onto the 4x4 shaft? It seems like a simpler solution than buying an expensive electronic box to compensate for a trigger wheel with an incorrect diameter/tooth count. Anyone know why this cant be done? I mean it seems to me as long as you have to gut the transmission to swap output shafts anyway it shouldnt be a big deal to swap the trigger wheel. The shafts should be identical in diameter..... Obviously you will have to know how much gap is between the trigger wheel and sensor. Once you know what that gap distance is supposed to be you can machine the appropriate spacer thickness to place under the VSS sensor.

A person would have to remove the tail housing from a 2wd 4R100, cut an access hole in the tailhousing so you can get a feeler gauge inside, reinstall the 2wd tailhousing, reach inside with a feeler gauge to measure the gap between the VSS and the trigger wheel teeth. Once you press the 2wd trigger wheel onto the 4wd output shaft and install it with the 4wd housing you can reach threw the rear of the 4x4 tailhousing to set your VSS sensor gap using spacer or shims to raise the sensor or machine the tailhousing if it needs lowered (i think if anything it will need to be raised slightly).

I could be completely FOS, does anyone have any thoughts on the matter? I just cant feature not doing this if its possible to avoid having to install an electronic device to compensate for an incorrect tooth count when doing this swap on a 4R100. You will already have the tranny torn completely down to install the 4wd output shaft anyway.

 

[Imbecile]

Am i incorrect in my thinking and the trigger wheels are the same but the 4wd VSS sensor itself is different than the 2wd sensor making the electronic signal box a requirement on the 4R100?

 

[CaulkinsCo.]

I'm no expert but I put the electric thing in. A few things about it, once programed they work great, once they get packed full of snow in my case the van would default back into first gear. If you get one there's room to mount it in a safe place behind the plastic step thing in the floor, will stay dry there.

As for the sensor I assume they're all the same just from the production cost point. Sensor picks up the magnetic field, ring dictates how often it sees that field.

Most people just do the exact same thing as the person before them but I think your idea is good. Most importantly from what I can tell I agree that it will cost basically nothing to try so no loss if it goes bad.

Your still going to change the tire size once lifted but I think you can sort that out with a engine programmer.

 

[tcg144]

I’m not sure what you are gaining if your still swapping the tail shafts. Pressing both gears off and then pressing one back on add more steps and more $$ to the process.

I just bought a 4r100 from a 4wd truck and used the ratio adapter. I ran the wiring into the van and mounted with fuse box so shouldn’t see any mechanical or water damage there.

 

[Imbecile]

Ok, let me attempt to clarify what im getting at. After you swap in a 4x4 tailshaft on your ford van with a 4R100 transmission you have to run the ratio adapter. There is a reason that ratio adapter is required once the shaft has been swapped. The reason has to be either the trigger wheel on the output shaft has more/less teeth, the trigger wheel is a different diameter than the original, or the 4x4 VSS sensor itself sends a different type of signal to the ECU.

I am merely tryng to determine which of these is the cause for having to use the ratio adapter box. I would prefer to remedy the actual cause versus using a bandaid approach and wasting money. That said, why cant a person simply put the 2wd trigger wheel on the 4x4 shaft (provided it is different than the 2wd) and adapt the original VSS sensor in the 4x4 tailhousing so that the ECU is getting the exact same signal it was getting when the truck was 2wd? No its not adding more money to the process. I already have a 2wd output shaft and trigger in my truck so theres nothing extra to purchase. Buying a ratio adapter box for $300 is what adds $$$ to the process.

My truck already has enough electronics on it that can malfunction, i dont care to add even more potential issues if it can be avoided. Putting the output shaft in a press and pushing a gear off and back onto another shaft is not a costly venture beyond costing me 30 minutes of my time. The only thing im trying to determine here is if anyone else knows the actual reason the ratio adapter is required to alter the signal going to the ECU beyond someone wanting to make money off of an issue that can be resolved in a more permanent manner. Again, im not implying that im correct in my thoughts, im just looking for some direction and answers prior to reaching that point in my swap.

Is the ratio adapter compensating for some ratio change caused by the transfer case versus the transmissions drive ratio without a transfercase? I cant see this being the issue, if that was the case i would think the manufacturer would place the VSS on the output of the transfercase versus the transmission outputshaft on 4x4 trucks.

 

[CaulkinsCo.]

No idea if it's a different signal but I think it's the same sensor on the outside if I remember mine correctly so it's probably the same.

If that's the case I believe it's not the size of the ring but how many teeth it has, tones per revolution. If that's the case even if the 2wd ring didn't fit it's a simple part to make.

I still like the idea. Mine is a 99 so you can basically find parts like sensors within walking distance or the next day from Amazon. That abbit chip thing not so much, even if you do the programming of it seemed nearly impossible to me.

 

[Imbecile]

Right, i have a guy that can machine me a trigger wheel to whatever dimensions i specify so thats not an issue. The only issue is that yanking the 4R100 out of the truck, then completely gutting it to swap the output shaft is a huge undertaking and not really a task someone would want to experiment with. But i guess if thats the only way i will get the answers im looking for then i will do it. If i wanted to waste money on a ratio box to correct a sensor signal then why not just buy the latest greatest ford transmission which is a 5 speed automatic and use a standalone transmission controller?? This ratio box thing makes no sense to me beyond being a gimmick to make money instead of addressing the actual issue. Kinda like a doctor treating symptoms versus curing the disease.

 

[zokey]

Ok in response to the 4R100 in a van conversions.
I have a 2003 E550 that I just converted to a 4x4 it 7.3 with a 4R100 Dana super 60.
I used the original transmission from the van I used the adapter and transfer case from a SD I pulled the trigger wheel off the SD installed it on the van transmission ABS lights on speedometer pegs out once you start to move
I tried using the PCM out of the SD same results.
So does anyone know what the fix is to correct this any help would be much appreciated

 

[Rebuilder]

Ok in response to the 4R100 in a van conversions.
I have a 2003 E550 that I just converted to a 4x4 it 7.3 with a 4R100 Dana super 60.
I used the original transmission from the van I used the adapter and transfer case from a SD I pulled the trigger wheel off the SD installed it on the van transmission ABS lights on speedometer pegs out once you start to move
I tried using the PCM out of the SD same results.
So does anyone know what the fix is to correct this any help would be much appreciated

I've been dealing with these issues on my E450 4x4 conversion for a while and haven't solved it yet but I do have a few things that might help you or someone else reading this. Did your van have the parking brake with a gear drive speed sensor in it mounted to the rear of the transmission? The gear drive style speed sensor that's in the parking brake assembly reads 3 pulses per revolution and the reluctor wheel you put in reads 18 pulses per rev causing your speedo to read 6x faster than you're actually moving. The ABS light is probably on because your front wheel sensors are from a newer model which have different signal. I put Dorman 970-021 sensors in and my ABS light turned off.

Things I've done to try to get it working....
- I bought one of these to adjust the pulses going to the speedo and transmission. https://www.ebay.com/itm/143554785386 . It works for the speedo but I'm having an issue where the engine randomly dies when I take my foot off the brake and step on the gas. Doesn't happen consistently but does only happen when the controller is plugged in. I thought it was the torque converter locking up and killing the engine but I cut the TC lock up wire an it still happens. I have no idea what signal the computer is getting that would kill the engine.
- I also machined off all but 3 teeth (evenly spaced) on the reluctor wheel which should mimic the 3 pulses per revolution that the PCM is expecting and that does work for the speedo and seemed to work for the transmission until I get to about 60mph and the van starts to buck like it's jumping between gears. This doesn't happen when the Universal Speedometer Controller is hooked up though. So essentially my issues are the engine may die if I have the controller hooked up or my van will buck at 60mph if the controller is not hooked up . The person selling the controller had me add a 10k ohm resister but that didn't fix it.

Things to try....
- Stand alone trans controller like the https://www.usshift.com/usq4.shtml
- Maybe a Dakota Digital trans controller. Haven't looked too closely at those yet.
- There are other pulse adjusters out there.
- Go with a BW1356 T-Case so you can run the original gear driven speed sensor. If I can find one I may try this.
- I have a mill and lathe so I may try to add provisions to mount the original gear drive speed sensor to the NV271 tail housing but that would be a lot of work.

I've done a lot of research on this and haven't found a simple "do this and it'll work" solution but I know it's out there. Hopefully someone will chime in with an answer

 

[zokey]

I've been dealing with these issues on my E450 4x4 conversion for a while and haven't solved it yet but I do have a few things that might help you or someone else reading this. Did your van have the parking brake with a gear drive speed sensor in it mounted to the rear of the transmission? The gear drive style speed sensor that's in the parking brake assembly reads 3 pulses per revolution and the reluctor wheel you put in reads 18 pulses per rev causing your speedo to read 6x faster than you're actually moving. The ABS light is probably on because your front wheel sensors are from a newer model which have different signal. I put Dorman 970-021 sensors in and my ABS light turned off.

Things I've done to try to get it working....
- I bought one of these to adjust the pulses going to the speedo and transmission. https://www.ebay.com/itm/143554785386 . It works for the speedo but I'm having an issue where the engine randomly dies when I take my foot off the brake and step on the gas. Doesn't happen consistently but does only happen when the controller is plugged in. I thought it was the torque converter locking up and killing the engine but I cut the TC lock up wire an it still happens. I have no idea what signal the computer is getting that would kill the engine.
- I also machined off all but 3 teeth (evenly spaced) on the reluctor wheel which should mimic the 3 pulses per revolution that the PCM is expecting and that does work for the speedo and seemed to work for the transmission until I get to about 60mph and the van starts to buck like it's jumping between gears. This doesn't happen when the Universal Speedometer Controller is hooked up though. So essentially my issues are the engine may die if I have the controller hooked up or my van will buck at 60mph if the controller is not hooked up . The person selling the controller had me add a 10k ohm resister but that didn't fix it.

Things to try....
- Stand alone trans controller like the https://www.usshift.com/usq4.shtml
- Maybe a Dakota Digital trans controller. Haven't looked too closely at those yet.
- There are other pulse adjusters out there.
- Go with a BW1356 T-Case so you can run the original gear driven speed sensor. If I can find one I may try this.
- I have a mill and lathe so I may try to add provisions to mount the original gear drive speed sensor to the NV271 tail housing but that would be a lot of work.

I've done a lot of research on this and haven't found a simple "do this and it'll work" solution but I know it's out there. Hopefully someone will chime in with an answer

Going to the BW transfer case is my next thing but I already had driveshafts made and the BW transfer case I have has yokes instead of flanges I'm hoping they will swap out.
And I don't know for sure but the gear drive sensor I think is because the speedometer is analog and the one with the pulse ring that came out of the F series is a digital speedometer I think that was the difference in the two sending unit so there should be some way to program that I tried the ECM out of the truck and that didn't do anything at all either

 

[zokey]

Well I bought a Abbott ERA ratio adapter worked for the speedometer but does nothing for the transmission.
Day 3 just got done installing a BW 1345 that had the gear driven provision.
So hopefully being able to use the original VSS sensor will make everything work as it was ment, unfortunately I have to have new drive lines built, no more flanges regular yokes now and the BW isn't near as.beefy as the 271 transfer case but I think it will do fine.
I will post the out come of the end result.

 

[Rebuilder]

I ended up modifying the output housing on my 271 to work with the original gear driven VSS. Works great. If I didn't already have the 271 I probably would have gone with a BW. This sorta started as a prototype/test with an old tail housing but it ended up working so I'm running it.



It is welded (tried spool gun and tig) but it looked terrible so I sanded and smoothed the welds with epoxy to fill in any pinholes. Not ideal but it's plenty good for what it is.