LocoCoyote
World Citizen
Facts don’t matter to you it seems.....so I am done talking with you and your closed mind.
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For those that carry Guns and Overlanding
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Facts don’t matter to you it seems.....so I am done talking with you and your closed mind.
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Ovrlnd Rd
Adventurer
Unless you're lying about your location, you are.
And those are lovely stats you posted. What's the source? I can make any BS I want that says the opposite of what you say unless it's documented.
LocoCoyote
World Citizen
Just because I live in Germany currently, doesn’t make me any less American.
Do a Google search for Polizeistatistik and go to town....the data will be mostly in German and you will have to put some effort into it, but it’s all there. I only had it ready, because this isn’t the first time I have had discussions about crime in Germany.
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Ovrlnd Rd
Adventurer
Excuse me. Your stats don't say "American living in Germany." I guess they should just say "Anti-Constitutionalist American living in Germany."
waveslider
Outdoorsman
Its funny watching people fight over feelings. There is absolutely no need to convince people that they should think the way you do. Freedom means that people can think whatever they want and trying to coerce people to think the way you do serves no ones purposes - except maybe the ever expanding regulation industrial complex.
At the end of the day, why should you care if someone chooses to carry a firearm or not? Its their choice and as long as they aren't advocating that you be restricted, then why give it more than a moments notice? Does it matter whether people think you carry a gun due to fear, fetish or otherwise? If so, why?
Unless I missed it, Mr/s World Citizen isn't saying you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun, or trying to restrict anyone's ability.
Take your power back.
At the end of the day, why should you care if someone chooses to carry a firearm or not? Its their choice and as long as they aren't advocating that you be restricted, then why give it more than a moments notice? Does it matter whether people think you carry a gun due to fear, fetish or otherwise? If so, why?
Unless I missed it, Mr/s World Citizen isn't saying you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun, or trying to restrict anyone's ability.
Take your power back.
LocoCoyote
World Citizen
Where did that even come from? I spent a bit over twenty years serving my country in peace and war...defending the constitution. So go screw yourself.
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waveslider
Outdoorsman
As a way to get this back on track around the topic of overlanding and firearms, I will note that I have really gotten to like using magnetic "holsters" in my farm, overland and daily driver vehicles. If you haven't tried them, they are really slick and handguns (and long guns) stick to them like glue. very safe and secure. I've never had one fall off.
This is the one I like but there are MANY options.
https://www.amazon.com/Tac-Mag-Gun-...1534188942&sr=8-9&keywords=magnetic+gun+mount
This is the one I like but there are MANY options.
https://www.amazon.com/Tac-Mag-Gun-...1534188942&sr=8-9&keywords=magnetic+gun+mount
waveslider
Outdoorsman
I have been extremely and pleasantly surprised that they are incredibly secure. I'm gotten pretty rowdy in my pickup riding across cut corn fields and the like and the handgun has never moved an inch.
perterra
Adventurer
Seriously, what did you think was going to happen when you make comments like people living in fear? I mean, seriously, I dont think anyone was asking for a dissenting opinion. I'm glad Germany is secure and comforting, hell my sis called the police at her house and it took 45 minutes for one to show. He apologized and told her with budget cuts, he was the closest in the county and he was 45 miles away.
I mean, if you dont feel the need, any where you roam, thats cool, dont carry. But as for where I roam, hell most customers I see in the sticks have an AR or pump gun on the back seat. We in the sticks and they are a tool as much as a weapon. But I dont think any are afraid of much of anything
LocoCoyote
World Citizen
" I guess they should just say "Anti-Constitutionalist American living in Germany." was the phrase I wondered about....how has anything I said led to that conclusion?
LocoCoyote
World Citizen
I really don't want to hijack this post anymore, so this is my final reply on the subject....
All right, I am being called out for my comments about Americans living in fear. Fair enough. Allow me , then, to try to expand and explain why I say that. Bear in mind a few things before I proceed. First off, I am a retired soldier living in Germany. I grew up in northern Arizona and was very much a part of the “gun culture” during that time. I am a firm believer in the right to bear arms and do not advocate not allowing anyone to carry, whenever, if they so desire. The only caveat to that is that such carry does not endanger others.
Being away from the States and around Europeans has given me the opportunity to look objectively at the US these days. I think that not being so close all the time has allowed me to see things more clearly. I would like to address several aspects of the comments made here and why I respond the way I do…none of this is in any particular order.
So let’s talk about fear.
The point has been brought up by several people that caring a firearm while traveling outdoors is nothing more than a sensible precaution. Like a first aid kit, or fire extinguisher. OK, fair enough as far as it goes. Disregarding the legal requirements to have such items (and no legal requirement for a firearm…hmmm wonder why that is?) because that argument misses the point entirely (for both sides of the argument, I think). So let’s look at how likely it might be that I need a fire extinguisher in my car: going from a Wikipedia article (yea, I know it can’t be taken as gospel, but it is a place to start), it states that in the US (since most of the folks discussing here are US based) from 2003 to 2007, there were 280,000 car fires resulting in 480 deaths (excluding deliberately set fires). OK, so it does happen enough that carrying a fire extinguisher in your car makes sense. Do we need to discuss how often accidents happen, especially in the outdoors, that justifies caring a first aid kit? No? Good. I think we can agree that it makes sense.
My point here is that carrying these two items make sense in that statistically there is a reasonable chance of you needing them. Although you may ever use either item, the chances that you might are reasonably high.
So, on to more murky territory…finding solid information about violent crime attacks on people enjoying the outdoors and wildlife attacks against the same…is very very difficult. Much of what you find (what I could find anyway) is anecdotal. But just about everyone agrees that you are more likely to be injured by falling or some form of accident than by a violent criminal or violent animal. Could it happen? Sure..and it has happened. So the risk is certainly present…but not very high.
And that it what it comes down to for me: the risk assessment. If you leave the fear factor out of it (I’ll get to that, patience) an objective risk assessment would not include the need for a firearm. Need is the word, not desire to have one (always your choice, go for it). So that is why I reject the “sensible precaution” argument. The need to use it for the stated purpose is just too unlikely.
So back to the main topic, fear:
I have said that America, in general terms, lives in a state of fear. I stand by that statement. Fear of strangers (Muslims, illegal immigrants, blacks, whites, other countries, etc). Fear of authority (government, police, etc) fear of apocalypse, judgement, world ruin financially or by other means…. The cynic in me says this is intentional because the government can more eaisly pursue and control the populace if they are in a state of fear. Its Hitler’s move….give the common people an enemy to focus on. But to be fair, that might be my own fears taking control, no?
I see the fear in many different ways. The first and biggest? The election of Mr Trump. (No, I am not going political here…I don’t care where you stand on this issue…every politician and both parties are bad for the country and pursuing their own agendas). I point out Trump, because his message is one of fear. Be afraid of the Media they are lying to you. Be afraid of the democrats because they hate you and this country. Be afraid of strangers (see above). The fact that he was elected, and still has so many who believe in him…fear.
What’s another indicator? Well, every time I go back home or visit some other location in the States, something always sticks out…it’s how empty the neighborhoods are. Parks are under used, Nobody is chatting with neighbors or having a spontaneous grill party. It’s always so eerily empty. People stay in their homes and interact only selectively. You won’t see that anywhere in Europe.
OK, some more? How about stores that provide anti-bacterial hand wash so you don’t get germs from the shopping carts? How about playgrounds that are surrounded by fences? Parents who coddle their children excessively by driving them to and from school? Seriously, the list could go on forever it feels like. There is a general feeling that no-one or nothing can be trusted..you have to take your fate into your own hands…and let’s be truthful about that; living such a life would be exhausting. And that brings us back to the start….feeling the need to carry, even when you are far from others.
This barely scratches the surface, but if you are open minded enough, you may find things here to think about. As for me, I have already spent way too much time on this subject..so I’m bowing out now.
Good luck, and safe travels all.
All right, I am being called out for my comments about Americans living in fear. Fair enough. Allow me , then, to try to expand and explain why I say that. Bear in mind a few things before I proceed. First off, I am a retired soldier living in Germany. I grew up in northern Arizona and was very much a part of the “gun culture” during that time. I am a firm believer in the right to bear arms and do not advocate not allowing anyone to carry, whenever, if they so desire. The only caveat to that is that such carry does not endanger others.
Being away from the States and around Europeans has given me the opportunity to look objectively at the US these days. I think that not being so close all the time has allowed me to see things more clearly. I would like to address several aspects of the comments made here and why I respond the way I do…none of this is in any particular order.
So let’s talk about fear.
The point has been brought up by several people that caring a firearm while traveling outdoors is nothing more than a sensible precaution. Like a first aid kit, or fire extinguisher. OK, fair enough as far as it goes. Disregarding the legal requirements to have such items (and no legal requirement for a firearm…hmmm wonder why that is?) because that argument misses the point entirely (for both sides of the argument, I think). So let’s look at how likely it might be that I need a fire extinguisher in my car: going from a Wikipedia article (yea, I know it can’t be taken as gospel, but it is a place to start), it states that in the US (since most of the folks discussing here are US based) from 2003 to 2007, there were 280,000 car fires resulting in 480 deaths (excluding deliberately set fires). OK, so it does happen enough that carrying a fire extinguisher in your car makes sense. Do we need to discuss how often accidents happen, especially in the outdoors, that justifies caring a first aid kit? No? Good. I think we can agree that it makes sense.
My point here is that carrying these two items make sense in that statistically there is a reasonable chance of you needing them. Although you may ever use either item, the chances that you might are reasonably high.
So, on to more murky territory…finding solid information about violent crime attacks on people enjoying the outdoors and wildlife attacks against the same…is very very difficult. Much of what you find (what I could find anyway) is anecdotal. But just about everyone agrees that you are more likely to be injured by falling or some form of accident than by a violent criminal or violent animal. Could it happen? Sure..and it has happened. So the risk is certainly present…but not very high.
And that it what it comes down to for me: the risk assessment. If you leave the fear factor out of it (I’ll get to that, patience) an objective risk assessment would not include the need for a firearm. Need is the word, not desire to have one (always your choice, go for it). So that is why I reject the “sensible precaution” argument. The need to use it for the stated purpose is just too unlikely.
So back to the main topic, fear:
I have said that America, in general terms, lives in a state of fear. I stand by that statement. Fear of strangers (Muslims, illegal immigrants, blacks, whites, other countries, etc). Fear of authority (government, police, etc) fear of apocalypse, judgement, world ruin financially or by other means…. The cynic in me says this is intentional because the government can more eaisly pursue and control the populace if they are in a state of fear. Its Hitler’s move….give the common people an enemy to focus on. But to be fair, that might be my own fears taking control, no?
I see the fear in many different ways. The first and biggest? The election of Mr Trump. (No, I am not going political here…I don’t care where you stand on this issue…every politician and both parties are bad for the country and pursuing their own agendas). I point out Trump, because his message is one of fear. Be afraid of the Media they are lying to you. Be afraid of the democrats because they hate you and this country. Be afraid of strangers (see above). The fact that he was elected, and still has so many who believe in him…fear.
What’s another indicator? Well, every time I go back home or visit some other location in the States, something always sticks out…it’s how empty the neighborhoods are. Parks are under used, Nobody is chatting with neighbors or having a spontaneous grill party. It’s always so eerily empty. People stay in their homes and interact only selectively. You won’t see that anywhere in Europe.
OK, some more? How about stores that provide anti-bacterial hand wash so you don’t get germs from the shopping carts? How about playgrounds that are surrounded by fences? Parents who coddle their children excessively by driving them to and from school? Seriously, the list could go on forever it feels like. There is a general feeling that no-one or nothing can be trusted..you have to take your fate into your own hands…and let’s be truthful about that; living such a life would be exhausting. And that brings us back to the start….feeling the need to carry, even when you are far from others.
This barely scratches the surface, but if you are open minded enough, you may find things here to think about. As for me, I have already spent way too much time on this subject..so I’m bowing out now.
Good luck, and safe travels all.
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
It's not fear of anything. We travel, you don't. If you had more real time experience, you'd understand the need to be prepared.
I had to blast a meth head in the face with bug spray last week. A girl would have needed to shoot him.
Places like California and Oregon promote crime and drug use. Then won't deal with the after affects, leaving tons of mental people on the street. It's getting more dangerous every year. Wacked out crack zombies.
I had to blast a meth head in the face with bug spray last week. A girl would have needed to shoot him.
Places like California and Oregon promote crime and drug use. Then won't deal with the after affects, leaving tons of mental people on the street. It's getting more dangerous every year. Wacked out crack zombies.
waveslider
Outdoorsman
This is my stop, I get off here.....
CanucksRedRocket
Observer
or maybe a girl would have just bug sprayed him too? just cause there a girl doesnt mean they need a gun...i got friends that could wipe any dudes ass any day...so gender...doesnt mean they need a gun. if bug spray worked..then buy spray would work no matter who is holdin the can.
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