For those that carry Guns and Overlanding

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perterra

Adventurer
You may only get one shot, but the heavy recoil of a particular cartridge shouldn't preclude someone from taking follow-up shots if able. .44 and above don't lend themselves well to follow-up shots, especially in light-weight platforms.

And size and fitness levels really only account for so much when it comes to shooting accuracy, especially with a big magnum. Experience and mental stamina are more important IMHO. I think most big magnum "advocates" are seriously lacking in both. I think most haven't really put their abilities to the test, so to speak.




This always confuses me. Why is 10mm considered more adequate than .357? Factory loads for both are about equal in many aspects, but the custom-bear loads for .357 offer better energy, comparable momentum and better sectional density. And yet I'm always hearing people praise the virtues of 10mm while discounting .357 mag. Why is that?

And BTW, 10mm is much cheaper than .44, especially when it comes to practice rounds.


180 grain 357 Buffalo Bore is some serious stuff. I am inclined to agree.

I haven't found a 454 Casull all that intimidating from a Red hawk, certainly less so than a S&W 329 44 mag.

In my opinion, there's no handgun I would feel comfortable with confronting a brown bear, but then there's really no rifle or slug gun I would feel comfortable with either.
 
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waveslider

Outdoorsman
I’m not sure the term “comfortable” and Brown Bear are made for each other - but for my money I’ll take a slug gun over most other options.

I can shoot it accurately from the hip or shoulder and it’s a tool I’m intimately familiar with.

Which, in the end, is probably the most important component of your choice. (And I think some of the point Dalko was making)
 
No, its fear.


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I agree more with The Wizard on this one. There has been a major push for people who are deciding to get prepared and work on all their, for lack of better word, survival plans. In my option, it is not fear that is the driving force in this but being self reliance. People are starting to realize that when seconds matter, help is minutes away even in the best of circumstances.
 

The Wizard

Observer
So you are a doctor now? Maybe specialized in remote diagnosis from forum comments?


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You also seem to be playing doctor by diagnosing my motivations ("No, its fear"). Just returning the favor. At least I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once!
 

Ovrlnd Rd

Adventurer
You also seem to be playing doctor by diagnosing my motivations ("No, its fear"). Just returning the favor. At least I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once!

Arguing with most Europeans, especially regarding gun issues, is a waste of time. You're never going to get past "I'm right and you're American" so why bother. Maybe the next time the Russians decide they want half, or all, of their country we can just let them figure out how to say "yes sir I'd like another" to their new masters.
 
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Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
They like getting stabbed a lot, in Germany:
https://www.thelocal.de/20180327/st...rther-fuels-debate-over-refugees-and-violence

d52CZPH.jpg


I have to question the opinion of someone who's country likes violent crime, and invites it in. And is heck bent on increasing it every chance they get. Next time I'm in Germany, I'm sure as heck staying out of the hotels swimming pool. That's for certain.

A few more years of this, and they'll invite the Russians in, to clean the place up.
 
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LocoCoyote

World Citizen
You also seem to be playing doctor by diagnosing my motivations ("No, its fear"). Just returning the favor. At least I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once!

Arguing with most Europeans, especially regarding gun issues, is a waste of time. You're never going to get past "I'm right and you're American" so why bother. Maybe the next time the Russians decide they want half, or all, of their country we can just let them figure out how to say "yes sir I'd like another" to their new masters.

So.....who’s European?


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LocoCoyote

World Citizen
They like getting stabbed a lot, in Germany:
https://www.thelocal.de/20180327/st...rther-fuels-debate-over-refugees-and-violence

d52CZPH.jpg


I have to question the opinion of someone who's country likes violent crime, and invites it in. And is heck bent on increasing it every chance they get. Next time I'm in Germany, I'm sure as heck staying out of the hotels swimming pool. That's for certain.

A few more years of this, and they'll invite the Russians in, to clean the place up.

Let’s not get political and turn this into a pissing contest. Your data is incorrect and is sourced by “the local “. This is a known right wing, anti refugee group.


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Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
I can find 100 other sources and you know it. In this case, there is nothing political about it. Those are just the immigrant violent crimes. Try an overlay with German crimes as well, and it's even worse. And if you consider that most crime complaints don't even get investigated over there..........

Sounds like, you should be a little more afraid over there. I ain't letting my daughter vacation there.
 

LocoCoyote

World Citizen
I can find 100 other sources and you know it. In this case, there is nothing political about it. Those are just the immigrant violent crimes. Try an overlay with German crimes as well, and it's even worse. And if you consider that most crime complaints don't even get investigated over there..........

Sounds like, you should be a little more afraid over there. I ain't letting my daughter vacation there.

Ok, if you really want to be a jerk about it....

Let's look at the statistics.

(I won't argue about Polizeistatistik because if we don't believe our numbers, we can just claim that all crime INCLUDING violent crime went up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A.)

Violent crime went down 1% in 2012 from 2011
Violent crime went down 5.3% in 2013 from 2012
Violent crime went down 2.1% in 2014 from 2013
Violent crime went up 0.2% in 2015 from 2014
Violent crime went up 6.7% in 2016 from 2015
Violent crime went down 2.4% in 2017 from 2016
Total number of violent crime in 2011 was 197.030 (did not go back further in my research as data in the same format and with the same meaning is increasingly hard to come by)
Total number of violent crime in 2014 was 180.955 (low point before migrant crisis)
Total number of violent crime in 2016 was 193.542 (peak during migrant crisis)
Total number of violent crime in 2017 was 188.946 (continuing greater downwards trend)
A similar trend does apply to total number of crimes in Germany btw. but with an earlier rise and sharper drop.

The migrant crisis was at it's height in October 2015
Among Migrants the group of 14-30 year old males is massively overrepresented (37.2%).
14-30 year old males are generally more prone to violence (Example from 2014: While the percentage of people living in Germany belonging to the group of 14-30 year old males was 9.2%, they made up 60.4% of violent crime suspects)
What can we learn from this?

There is without a doubt a peak in crime during the migrant crisis of roughly 7% that Germany has not yet completely recovered from. And altough I am pro basic right to asylum and generally green-left I am not willing to say that migrants are not (in part) responsible for this. This is just fact.

The reason behind this is not immediatly apparent, even if some people will call out their bias. There is however a strong indication that the numbers should not be equated to the general public but should be normalized according to age group and gender.

Now let's look at the other side: Victims

This rise of 12.587 violent crimes does btw. include the near doubling of violent hatecrimes against immigrants, so we should not make the assumption that only migrants are responsible for all of those.

Upon closer inspection of victims, something becomes apparent, but let's look at the numbers first.

28,8% of violent crime victims were non-germans
31,1% of assault victims were non-germans
In the federal state of Baden-Württemberg (the one I found numbers on) of all assaults commited by immigrants, 87\% of the victims were other immigrants.
More than half violent crime attacks by migrants happen inside refugee-centers
According to Saxony 40% of all crimes commited by migrants in the federal state were commited by repeat offenders (at least 5 commited crimes)
The repeat-offender numbers from Saxony account for 7.253 crimes commited by 685 suspects
Conclusion

Putting people with a huge portion of 14-30 year young men, some of them suffering from PTSD, for a long time into relatively small shelters where tensions run high, aggression festers and people, who might have fought each other in their homeland, have to live together maybe is a bad idea.

Accounting for all of the above, we can imho. safely draw the conclusion that the spike in violent crime is a natural effect that was bound to happen on grounds of differing cultures (I don't deny this in the slightest), difficulty adopting to new circumstances and tensions running high in a situation that is difficult for migrants and nationals alike.

Crime is not way up, in fact, total crime is WAY DOWN
The numbers don't show a crime wave washing over Germany, merely a small and temporary peak that is already readjusting.
The numbers don't show any change in culture, let alone a violent change.
Even during the absolute height of the peak in 2016 violent crime was below pre-crisis 2011 numbers!
The numbers clearly show that the people mostly affected by violent immigrant crime are not germans, but other immigrants.
Even during the highest peak of violent crime that can be attributed to migrants, german violent crime rate per capita was WAY below US numbers.
Edit: It's clearly not the migrant population as a whole that is responsible for this but largely a number of repeat-offenders that really kick up the statistics.


.


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Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
Bull, and you know it.

I don't take gun advice from someone that supports child rape and terrorism.
 
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