First Panam Journey in an Electric RV? Check out "Route Del Sol"

shade

Well-known member
It's obviously not perfect, but clearly it's good enough to make the trip, which is awesome.

We also have Charlie and Ewan riding up on electric Harley's and a Rivian pickup.

These kinds of electric vehicles are only going to get better and better over the coming years, and it's not a question of if they'll be ideal for this kind of adventure, it's just a question of when.

-Dan
But is it good enough? This video doesn't make this system look so great:


I hope the Rivian system does well. The HD pigs are of no interest to me, but any motorcycle will require a charge source other than what it can carry, unless it's towing a sizeable trailer of panels. I can't stand Charlie, so I won't be watching whatever moronic behaviour he's up to on that trip.

Panel & battery tech is just starting to become affordable & efficient enough to make this type of travel possible. There's plenty of shortcomings, but it can be done. As cost, efficiency, and power density improve, it can only get better. I think it's more realistic to see EV campers string together routes with grid & solar charging options used, instead of solely running off solar.
 

F350joe

Well-known member
all due respect, this is an EV thread about an EV camper. If you want to discus doing this route on a bike, go to the bike thread. Not one person on this project or following it has any interest in biking this route. Nice humble brag though.
 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
But is it good enough? This video doesn't make this system look so great:

They're doing it, so I think by definition that makes it good enough. Like I said, not perfect, but good enough.

Truth be told the Jeeps I've driven around continents weren't perfect either.
In fact, I don't believe anything is perfect, and aiming for that is just an endless money and time sink.

Panel & battery tech is just starting to become affordable & efficient enough to make this type of travel possible. There's plenty of shortcomings, but it can be done. As cost, efficiency, and power density improve, it can only get better.

Yep, that's what I was trying to say, but you said it better than me. Thanks.

-Dan
 

Pilat

Tossing ewoks on Titan
all due respect, this is an EV thread about an EV camper. If you want to discus doing this route on a bike, go to the bike thread. Not one person on this project or following it has any interest in biking this route. Nice humble brag though.
"all due respect," ha, ha!

We are talking about range. I am saying that the range is still so abysmal on solar alone that even a friggng bicycle powered by an amputee (me), have more range than that thing, and can keep a higher average than that. Of course, the moment you actually plug it in, I can't compete. But if we're talking solar powered alone, I can do more than that on a much simpler vehicle than in this thing. I think that is relevant, whether you'd like me to shut up or not, "with all due respect". :rolleyes:

[EDIT]
And as for your "humble brag" comment. It really isn't. Most anyone can do it: Say you're in the saddle for six hours, you only need to go at 5 mph on average to match the 30 miles of the solar van. And 5 mph is not really going fast, is it? It says a lot that you think that 5mph/6 hours is somehow "humble bragging". I didn't say I could do 30 miles in an hour. Depending on terrain (and wind), I usually do about 12 mph on average. Which is still not a lot - even with full camping gear and extra water.
 
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Pilat

Tossing ewoks on Titan
I could this route on a horse and get more than 30 miles a day. Derp.

Feeding and caring for a horse is more difficult than caring for a bicycle. However, it IS telling that it can be done better on the bike. "Derp" indeed.

If we aren't allowed to compare this to other types of vehicles and their range, why even bother having this thread?
 

Christian P.

Expedition Leader
Staff member
TBH, at that range, I'd rather use my bicycle (and a little solar panel for the phone and other electronics) for a much larger daily range. Okay, it takes a bit more effort, but I like to ride my bike anyway.

I would agree with that. And you would get top shape!
 

Christian P.

Expedition Leader
Staff member
Personally, after having worked in converting the first Prius Hybrid(s) into plug in hybrids, I think I would be afraid that most components are still too "fragile" to endure a 3 years trip outside North America. It will get there eventually, but it will take some work.

But getting back to this particular trip (and not trying to predict the future), 30 miles of range per day is very hard to sustain. Beside the range of the vehicle, you do need to live your own life and that costs money....eating, going out, doing activities, etc etc. There are other logistical challenges too, like the length of your visa.

I have not watched in details but it seems like he started in Alaska in 2018, and 1.5 years later he is in Northern California.

Eventually you will want to get somewhere!
 

shade

Well-known member
Personally, after having worked in converting the first Prius Hybrid(s) into plug in hybrids, I think I would be afraid that most components are still too "fragile" to endure a 3 years trip outside North America. It will get there eventually, but it will take some work.

But getting back to this particular trip (and not trying to predict the future), 30 miles of range per day is very hard to sustain. Beside the range of the vehicle, you do need to live your own life and that costs money....eating, going out, doing activities, etc etc. There are other logistical challenges too, like the length of your visa.

I have not watched in details but it seems like he started in Alaska in 2018, and 1.5 years later he is in Northern California.

Eventually you will want to get somewhere!
Agreed. Like I said, that vehicle just looks too big & heavy to go far on the available power.

I think a more realistic solar-EV camper built with today's tech for a somewhat reasonable amount of money would look a lot more like a Prius V towing a collapsed solar array. It'd be a tiny space compared to this Pan-Am RV, but a fully gutted interior could be arranged to maximize living & battery space. Streamlining the trailer wouldn't be too hard, and some extra supplies could be carried in it to free up space in the Prius. It might even be possible to retain the efficient OEM aircon.

Being a Prius would mean staying on pavement, or no worse than fairly smooth gravel roads and the like. Careful driving would still get you to some interesting places, though. I doubt the Pan-Am RV was blasting down trails anyway.

And no matter what, the ability to charge off the mains would still be a requirement. Going full solar would be the goal, but reality doesn't always care about someone's goals.
 

Pilat

Tossing ewoks on Titan
Seeing how the best panels are around 25 percent effective (well, almost for the most part), that means that in a perfect world, with the same array area, you could get four times the power at some point in the future (in principal). That still won't be much power. So I think what you want to do is cut weight in the extreme - carbon fibre, titanium, get it really aerodynamic, while also having the lightest panels, an arm for the panels to track the sun and so on. It won't remove the problems, but weight loss seems to be the way to go if you really intend to use solar power for propulsion (and not merely for the house bank).

With that in mind, packing for a motorcycle ride (or even lighter) and throwing it into one of those solar race vehicles seems to be just about the only way to travel on solar alone (unless you boil to death in them as they don't have air con).
 

shade

Well-known member
Seeing how the best panels are around 25 percent effective (well, almost for the most part), that means that in a perfect world, with the same array area, you could get four times the power at some point in the future (in principal). That still won't be much power. So I think what you want to do is cut weight in the extreme - carbon fibre, titanium, get it really aerodynamic, while also having the lightest panels, an arm for the panels to track the sun and so on. It won't remove the problems, but weight loss seems to be the way to go if you really intend to use solar power for propulsion (and not merely for the house bank).

With that in mind, packing for a motorcycle ride (or even lighter) and throwing it into one of those solar race vehicles seems to be just about the only way to travel on solar alone (unless you boil to death in them as they don't have air con).
Well yeah, if you want to make a purpose built craft from the ground up, and spend the considerable amount of money required to do so. I doubt many solar boosters are going to put the money into a road going Solar Impulse 2 equivalent.

The reason I mentioned converting a Prius V is precisely because it's the only production vehicle I could think of that has a chance at fitting the bill, and that would still require considerable work to convert to full EV use. It already has a reasonably low 0.29 drag coefficient. Considerable weight could be shed from its 1500 kg once the hybrid drive system and interior was scrapped. That weight savings, along with its 415 kg cargo capacity, would go a long way toward carrying the new EV components (mainly motor & battery).

And the electrically driven Prius aircon is about as efficient as you'll find.
 

luthj

Engineer In Residence
The next generation of thin film solar cells could be pushing 29% efficiency. There is some research into printing them on thin plastic film using self-assembling solids suspended in a liquid carrier. If this becomes possible, we could see roll-out solar arrays. Something on the order of <10lbs per kw (at a fraction of silicon cell costs). That would make this type of vehicle operation much more doable. In fact, I bet you could make a bit of coin by driving a "portable" charging station/trailer out into a remote location along a common track. Deploying 30kw of PV, and selling the electricity to "overlanders" passing through,
 

Pilat

Tossing ewoks on Titan
Well yeah, if you want to make a purpose built craft from the ground up, and spend the considerable amount of money required to do so. I doubt many solar boosters are going to put the money into a road going Solar Impulse 2 equivalent.
I am talking about what it would actually take to make a vehicle solely propelled by solar. That is what it would take even if we had access to 100 percent efficient solar panels. My point was not that it was something I'd want, nor that it would be anywhere near "comfortable". The point is that a 100 percent solar driven vehicle will never be practical or even somewhat good. Add several hundred kilos of batteries to shift the usage time from the solar production time, and you will run into problems because of the added weight.

The reason I mentioned converting a Prius V is precisely because it's the only production vehicle I could think of that has a chance at fitting the bill, and that would still require considerable work to convert to full EV use. It already has a reasonably low 0.29 drag coefficient. Considerable weight could be shed from its 1500 kg once the hybrid drive system and interior was scrapped. That weight savings, along with its 415 kg cargo capacity, would go a long way toward carrying the new EV components (mainly motor & battery).

And the electrically driven Prius aircon is about as efficient as you'll find.

I am not talking about "load capacity" when I talk about added weight. You have diesel electric trains. We have huge lorries/trucks that can carry a lot. The point is that any added weight will mean less range due to having to use more energy to accelerate the thing, and it will also cost a lot more energy uphill. Hence ultralight extreme solar vehicles.

The Prius is perfectly fine as an electric vehicle since you can charge it, it is possible to run it without solar.A solar-only Prius is still stupid, as you'd have to go really, really slowly (both when driving, but also because of downtime due to solar charging taking a long time). So, the prius is perfectly okay as an electric vehicle, but any "normal" car (like the Prius and others) won't be able to run on solar-only. You'd have to design an extreme vehicle for solar-only to be an option. Especially today where the solar panels are at most just around 25% effective. And, also, I had to mention this again; But there is a reason the extreme vehicles use flexible panels (Solbian etc.) rather than the (slightly) more efficient rigid panels: Weight and aerodynamics.
 

shade

Well-known member
I am talking about what it would actually take to make a vehicle solely propelled by solar. That is what it would take even if we had access to 100 percent efficient solar panels. My point was not that it was something I'd want, nor that it would be anywhere near "comfortable". The point is that a 100 percent solar driven vehicle will never be practical or even somewhat good. Add several hundred kilos of batteries to shift the usage time from the solar production time, and you will run into problems because of the added weight.



I am not talking about "load capacity" when I talk about added weight. You have diesel electric trains. We have huge lorries/trucks that can carry a lot. The point is that any added weight will mean less range due to having to use more energy to accelerate the thing, and it will also cost a lot more energy uphill. Hence ultralight extreme solar vehicles.

The Prius is perfectly fine as an electric vehicle since you can charge it, it is possible to run it without solar.A solar-only Prius is still stupid, as you'd have to go really, really slowly (both when driving, but also because of downtime due to solar charging taking a long time). So, the prius is perfectly okay as an electric vehicle, but any "normal" car (like the Prius and others) won't be able to run on solar-only. You'd have to design an extreme vehicle for solar-only to be an option. Especially today where the solar panels are at most just around 25% effective. And, also, I had to mention this again; But there is a reason the extreme vehicles use flexible panels (Solbian etc.) rather than the (slightly) more efficient rigid panels: Weight and aerodynamics.

You're not getting my point at all.

I'm positing what's possible today without resorting to extreme engineering & expense, not suggesting that a solar powered Pan-Am trip in a Prius V would be fast or free from serious constraints. Nothing more than that.
 

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