Phil - I'm not sure I follow. When you say cable cutters, are you referring to cutting the battery cables or something to cut power to the vehicle? In the instance I'm referring to from Monday, the TJ was rear ended by someone going between 80 and 100 mph, so the fire was caused from an explosion of the gas tank. I honestly don't think in this situation any fire extinguisher would have been sufficient due to the massive fuel source for the flames, but it obviously still made me wonder what more could have been done.
Fire extinguishers
- Thread starter MTSN
- Start date
Phil - I'm not sure I follow. When you say cable cutters, are you referring to cutting the battery cables or something to cut power to the vehicle? In the instance I'm referring to from Monday, the TJ was rear ended by someone going between 80 and 100 mph, so the fire was caused from an explosion of the gas tank. I honestly don't think in this situation any fire extinguisher would have been sufficient due to the massive fuel source for the flames, but it obviously still made me wonder what more could have been done.
Thank you for your detailed explanation of what you experienced as well as your candidness. For those of us who are in the fire service and/or do it for a living (fire protection engineering), we honestly think about fire safety all the time. It is said that everyone will have two experiences with the fire department (fire) in their lifetime. I think that this experience will only help keep fire safety in your mind.
So, fire extinguishers. There was a decent article in the Spring 2012 edition of Overland Journal entitled "We Set a Land Rover on Fire in an Attempt to Learn About Fire Safety and Prevention". This could be a good starting point.
The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Standard for Portable Fire Extinguishers, NFPA 10, will tell you more than anyone really wants to know about types, size, hazards, whatever, and not really what people want or need to know for their 4-wheeling/overland application.
Whenever I see stove set-ups attached to vehicles and propane tanks near the gasoline fills, I tend to get a little nervous. Especially if you need to go past the stove to get to the roll bar mounted extinguisher. I tend to lean more towards the folding camp table and portable stove AWAY from my ride home.
I would carry the largest fire extinguisher you can accommodate, which in our world is not always practical. Smaller 2.5lb extinguishers "fit" where we want them, but we seem to always have room for the 10 and 15 pound Co2 cylinders for filling up tires. It will never happen to us.......
Anyhow, I would look for a fire extinguisher with a metal body and neck/handle. These can be recharged. The extinguisher will list the classes of fire it can extinguish (A - ordinary combustibles like Land Rover Technical Manuals, B - flammable liquids like gasoline, and C - electrical fires). Flammable metals (class D) and kitchen cooking oils (class K) don't really apply here unless you have a deep fat fryer in the back of your old VW with a magnesium engine block. "Hefting" your fire extinguisher periodically will help ensure the dry chemical powder will not harden. Co2 extinguishers are easily identifiable by the "bell" on the end of the nozzle. These are also useful in cooling down beverages quickly.
The numbers in front of the letters (ex. 2A10BC) let the user know the rating size of the fire the extinguisher can put out. In this example 2A would put out a 10' X 10' wood panel or 25 sq. ft. of flammable liquid. Not as effective as you may think - especially when something is fully involved.
Fire loves oxygen and opening up a Land Rover hoodcan help an engine fire increase as well as increase the potential for burns to your hands and eyebrows.
I carry two MaxOut http://www.h3rperformance.com/mx250r.htm extinguishers with me.
You can learn more about fire safety at your local fire department, YouTube training videos, or at seminars at some of the Expo classes which are held. Like MTSN said - dress for the crash, not the ride. Stay safe out there.
Dave - thanks for your post. It was very informative and educational!
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
X2 Thank you very much!
Hi Mike, I made them out of some scrap aluminum plate. Didn't want to drill into the seat frame, so I used the center hole already there, and then a couple pieces of flat stock to clamp around the bottom. Then drilled holes for the mounts and used nut-serts to attach the extinguisher bracket.
I originally thought they'd bounce around and make noise, but they've been nice and quiet on and off road.
This page of the build has pictures and info on how I made them.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/129035-2014-JKURX-quot-Bought-Not-Built-quot-er-build-thread/page3
LandCruiserPhil
Expedition Leader
Yes, cable cutters.
I do agree a hand held fire extinguisher would not be a safe choice wit a fuel spill. Given the situation I would get the occupants out of the vehicle to a safe area and wait for the fire department.
unkamonkey
Explorer
The van still has the 10 lb extinguisher in it. On job sites, me, making sawdust and having plumbers with volitile glues and flame around, It made more sense to have something larger near.
It sounds like you know more about the topic than you're letting on, so please share why it is that halon types should be saved for "more important" things than people's vehicles and/or saving people's lives. I think everyone here is interested in what is most effective while causing the least amoung of damage, so please share your insight instead of just providing vague and confusing opinions. I'm not trying to be a jerk - this is a very important topic and we can all benefit from learning.
comptiger5000
Adventurer
There are also halon-type units available that use alternative extinguishing agents and not halon itself. Those are much cheaper and more available too.
offroadaction
Observer
I keep a couple of the tactical Cold Fire cans instead of 5lb fire extinguishers. They are small, a little larger than a spray can and honestly work better than regular halon fire extinguishers. During testing, you could actually touch where the fire had been within a minute. It takes the hot of the fire and material somehow. I use the black tactical version because it will not freeze up to -20 degrees or something like that. it is worth looking into... I know a lot of guys that have the big fire extinguishers of it on their work trucks, etc.
http://coldfirecanada.com/
http://coldfirecanada.com/
unkamonkey
Explorer
A neighbor has a Halon system in his boat, an IO. Never been used. He uses the hull fan as advised before starting the motor. He used to be a life guard at a local lake, sitting there in the chair he saw a boat on fire across the lake. Grab somebodys boat and run over to pick up the people swimming about, and count the vodka bottles floating around.
A few years ago I was out in the back yard working on my Jeep and noticed smoke coming out of the neighbors house. Ran over there and saw the oil she was heating to fry tortillas was on fire. Turn off burner and find a larger frying pan to cover the burning one. Yelled out her name, she never had a clue about what was going on.
I'll have to check out that Cold Fire product.
A few years ago I was out in the back yard working on my Jeep and noticed smoke coming out of the neighbors house. Ran over there and saw the oil she was heating to fry tortillas was on fire. Turn off burner and find a larger frying pan to cover the burning one. Yelled out her name, she never had a clue about what was going on.
I'll have to check out that Cold Fire product.
offroadaction
Observer
TreeTopFlyer
Adventurer
I use a Kidde #466620 foam extinguisher (rated 8A:70B),
Not as cool as the coldfire units, it's not easily rechargeable.
Not as cool as the coldfire units, it's not easily rechargeable.
chet6.7
Explorer
I use a Kidde #466620 foam extinguisher (rated 8A:70B),
Not as cool as the coldfire units, it's not easily rechargeable.
My local stores don't carry those,I didn't see it on Amazon either.
Where did you get it?
Thanks.
I just finished reading a great article on the site for www.macthefireguy.com . He gives his opinion about every retardant out there, including the new ones. Highly recommend. Hopefully, someone will find and post a response with the article's link.
I also read up on the Cold Fire suppressant. I'm sold. Via www.coldfire-direct.com I'm going to order a 2.5 gal w extra bottle of active agent (it comes with one) for $145. Where I'm going to store it is a problem. Hopefully, there'll be space behind my driver seat on my Unlimited. It weighs 25 lb full; so, I'll have to put it in a secure but quick release holder somewhere.
Their main site has a video of the SLC FD using it to extinguish a car fully engulfed. Was extremely impressive.
Best thing other than it puts out fires is I can refill it without professional help. Once empty, I unscrew the tank's head, pour in the bottle contents, and fill w ~9L of water. During winter, I can add a little anti-freeze. I rescrew the head and charge it using my OBA compressor and the gauge on the Cold Fire head. Could NOT be easier. If I ever see it's lost some pressure, I just add some air myself.
Another nice thing about the DIY refilling is if I carry a bottle of the Cold Fire medium in addition to the charged extinguisher, when I run out fighting a fire AND have time to do so, I can quickly recharge another 2.5 gal worth of fire suppressant using water container(s) and my OBA compressor. It'd be close to as good, but not as good, as having a second extinguisher.
Cold Fire is not C rated (electricity) rated. The only way to stop a truly electricity generated fire is to stop the power. I would hesitate to use it on a a RV battery bay bit I WOULD use in on an engine compartment of a Jeep (without raising the hood, as I've learned here), battery, wires, and all. It's ALSO rated for K (grease) fires.
I also will carry 2 aerosol-size foam-type extinguishers like the Cold Fire, just different brand. One will be up front, the other in the food prep galley coming out the rear. Yes, my stoves will be on stand-alone platforms.
Jerry Lewis
I also read up on the Cold Fire suppressant. I'm sold. Via www.coldfire-direct.com I'm going to order a 2.5 gal w extra bottle of active agent (it comes with one) for $145. Where I'm going to store it is a problem. Hopefully, there'll be space behind my driver seat on my Unlimited. It weighs 25 lb full; so, I'll have to put it in a secure but quick release holder somewhere.
Their main site has a video of the SLC FD using it to extinguish a car fully engulfed. Was extremely impressive.
Best thing other than it puts out fires is I can refill it without professional help. Once empty, I unscrew the tank's head, pour in the bottle contents, and fill w ~9L of water. During winter, I can add a little anti-freeze. I rescrew the head and charge it using my OBA compressor and the gauge on the Cold Fire head. Could NOT be easier. If I ever see it's lost some pressure, I just add some air myself.
Another nice thing about the DIY refilling is if I carry a bottle of the Cold Fire medium in addition to the charged extinguisher, when I run out fighting a fire AND have time to do so, I can quickly recharge another 2.5 gal worth of fire suppressant using water container(s) and my OBA compressor. It'd be close to as good, but not as good, as having a second extinguisher.
Cold Fire is not C rated (electricity) rated. The only way to stop a truly electricity generated fire is to stop the power. I would hesitate to use it on a a RV battery bay bit I WOULD use in on an engine compartment of a Jeep (without raising the hood, as I've learned here), battery, wires, and all. It's ALSO rated for K (grease) fires.
I also will carry 2 aerosol-size foam-type extinguishers like the Cold Fire, just different brand. One will be up front, the other in the food prep galley coming out the rear. Yes, my stoves will be on stand-alone platforms.
Jerry Lewis
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I'm a 30+ year paid (and some volunteer too) firefighter. You should consider the type of powder - I use PKP (purple k powder) in my home and vehicles (including my Ferret!). If all else fails, just carry sodium bicarbonate (NEVER use flour, it goes flash and boom).
As to the extinguisher body, consider avoiding plastic because they are hard to refill.
As to the extinguisher body, consider avoiding plastic because they are hard to refill.