The only thing mounted to the toll bar is the quick release bracket common to most extinguishers. If needed I just flip a lever and lift extinguisher from bracket to use. Fill gauge is visible when I open the tailgate. It’s out of the way.
fire extinguisher recommendation requested
- Thread starter s.e.charles
- Start date
Scoutn79
Adventurer
I like to have more than one.
Well that makes sense. When I read it I thought the extinguisher body was band clamped to the cage not the bracket....
Darrell
robert
Expedition Leader
That's literally one of the dumbest things I've ever read (not saying that you're dumb, just that advocating not to bother trying is pants on head retarded). I've put out several car fires over the years using just the fire extinguisher on the ambulance. The key is that you must catch it early, obviously once it spreads you're out of luck. Know the difference between smoke and steam- different color and smell, also different sound as you can usually hear the steam or liquid under pressure escaping. Remember, most fire start small and localized. Use common sense- in the event of a catastrophic failure such as fuel tank rupture you need to get out of there ASAP. You need to use a healthy dose of common sense here and evaluate whether it's worth it to try to fight it or wait and deal with insurance- that's a decision only you can make and it's going to vary by person and situation. There's no shame in playing it safe and saying screw it at any point.
Assuming you suspect a fire starting under the hood (most common place)- DO NOT OPEN THE HOOD TO INVESTIGATE! Once you open the hood you just gave the fire a lot more of one of the three things it needs- oxygen (the others being heat and fuel). If you suspect fire, release the hood so that it pops up just to the safety lever, observe through the small opening if safe to do so, and if you see fire starting, aim your fire extinguisher at the source and discharge. A five pounder doesn't last very long and smaller extinguishers go much quicker so you need to be accurate and aggressive. Hit it hard and fast- it's going to make a mess (unless it's halon) and you're not going to be able to see what's going on so you might as well dump either the whole load on it or most of it (I've heard both recommendations, if it's a smaller size or you've got a second extinguisher I'd dump the whole thing). Wait to see what happens, remember we don't want to give a small flame oxygen by opening the hood wide open. Now is a great time to be unloading the vehicle as quickly as possible if someone hasn't done so already. Without waiting too long, check to see if any flames remain then use whatever you may have left over or another extinguisher if available. If you don't have any more extinguisher handy then you need to make a quick decision- continue to try fighting it or get away. In well over twenty years in EMS I have never seen a normal vehicle explode (not talking Teslas, hydrogen or Mr. Fusion powered). Yes, they will become fully engulfed with flames rolling out and tires and gas charged hood struts and bumpers can also pop so you don't want to be near them if the flames have spread, but the movie stuff is just that.
If your fire extinguisher is empty you don't have many option at this point. Water will work- if you have enough under pressure like a fire truck, but sand is probably a better and more readily available option. You're going to have to open the hood if you can do so safely; wear leather gloves and be prepared for it to flare up. Grab your shovel and start piling dirt on the source as quickly as you can- I've never done this but I've seen it done successfully by firefighters on maybe two occasions (note that they had a charged line standing by). If this fails or you feel it's unsafe at any point, back off and try to prevent it from spreading if safe to do so.
It should go without saying that rescuer safety (your own) is paramount, followed by bystanders, then any potential patients, and finally property. Rollovers are a bit different situation obviously. There is a rollover device in modern vehicles that should shut of the flow of fuel but that doesn't mean a fuel line or pump can't be damaged and allow fuel to be dumped. Again, while I know it doesn't seem common anymore, use some common sense.
Ideally, I'd suggest installing a fire suppression system but we all weigh the odds and decide what we will and won't spend money on. If I owned something like an Earth Roamer I'd definitely have one, what's a couple hundred more dollars onto the price of one of those land yachts? If I lived or traveled extensively put of my vehicle I'd add one. I wanted to add one to my VW Westy but never got around to it- in the VW bus, the fuel tank is located behind a removable firewall above the level of the engine so if a hose comes loose (most common cause among idiots who don't do regular PM) or is damaged, it will continue to dump fuel onto the hot engine via gravity. Examples of fire suppression systems: https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/fire-suppression-systems?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&tw=fire s&sw=Fire Suppression Systems
All that said, I keep a 2.5# Marine (BC) fire extinguisher behind the seat and when traveling I add a second 2.5# ABC extinguisher in the back. I'll probably add one of the Elements when I get some extra money. I've seen demonstrations of the "chimney bombs" and it looks like a similar idea (but directed blast) so they ought to work well.
Several notes: metal head fire extinguishers can usually be refilled. Be sure that you periodically check your extinguishers to make sure that they are still accessible, still fully charged and invert them several times to make sure that the powder is still free flowing inside and not clumped. Once you use any amount of a fire extinguisher, even if you don't fully discharge it, it needs to be tossed (if disposable) or serviced by a fire extinguisher place.
ETA- I started doing some on-line research on those Element fire extinguishers and came across this thread on a Porsche forum. The company rep weighs in and it's pretty interesting. It does point out that some training is needed to use effectively. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/pors...5754-testing-element-fire-extinguisher-4.html
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Sounds like you’re a pro or pro trained. Hope you’re there when my truck catches fire. But 99% of us who will have to deal with a car fire don’t have your experience and it will probably be our first. I won’t be close enough to inhale the smoke or steam or toxins to tell the difference. Anything I care about will be out and away as quickly as possible.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
robert
Expedition Leader
Honestly, if you can put out a camp fire and have some common sense you can probably put out an early, small vehicle fire safely. 
Given that, by definition, we like to go places off the beaten path, it's something that folks should have a little training on; possibly burning down the forests and having to run for our lives isn't really a great plan. Coyote Works for example, was really lucky that fire didn't spread to the surrounding area.
Given that, by definition, we like to go places off the beaten path, it's something that folks should have a little training on; possibly burning down the forests and having to run for our lives isn't really a great plan. Coyote Works for example, was really lucky that fire didn't spread to the surrounding area.Yeah I didn’t consider the burning down forests thing. I’ll still get everything out first, then use the small extinguisher I do carry to keep it from spreading to a forest fire. That, most of us can do. I just think fighting a car fire as the first action is probably not good advice for non pros.
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robert
Expedition Leader
I swear I'm not picking on you, please don't think I am, I'm just posting up my thoughts as they relate to over-landing.
The problem is that fighting it early is really the only time non-pros and/or folks with limited equipment (us in our vehicles) really do have a chance. Again though, each situation is going to be different and folks need to quickly weigh their options and choose the best and safest for them. Small extinguishers are for very small fires and don't work well in open areas such as outdoors where the chemical is quickly dispersed. I think some basic firefighting, specific to our activities, should be part of everyone's planning, just as first aid, recovery, nutrition, etc. I'm not sure if it's a topic that's covered by any of the off-road training groups or not. I've heard groups mention always having a fire extinguisher handy and they're required on every ride I know of, but I've never heard of any actual discussion of it's use.
In this day and age where individuals can and have been charged for unintentionally starting fires, fines can be an overwhelming financial burden and I won't be surprised when government agencies start requiring users to carry some sort of coverage to help offset costs. Also some insurance policies don't cover off-road vehicle use or recovery and those costs can easily reach into the thousands- pulling a vehicle on four rolling wheels out is a lot easier than recovering a non-rolling scrap heap. Unfortunately these are things that we all need to consider as part of our travel plans.
Incidentally, I am not a professional fire fighter although I've been through several fire fighting courses, so nothing I say should be considered gospel or professional advice. If any professionals have anything to add or corrections to be made please feel free to do so- I certainly won't be offended.
s.e.charles
Well-known member
so which kind do I want?
(1) BC & (1) ABC - 2 1/2 # each better than nothing?
like Howard Johnson's 28 flavors, this thread got too complicated for me very fast!
(1) BC & (1) ABC - 2 1/2 # each better than nothing?
like Howard Johnson's 28 flavors, this thread got too complicated for me very fast!
4xdog
Explorer
I use an Amerex Halotron 2B:C 2 1/2 lb extinguisher in my Tacoma, a smaller one in my 1962 Triumph TR3. Zoro by far has the best pricing. Halotron is a good combination of no-residue and ozone friendliness -- one doesn't want to use a standard dry chemical extinguisher on a vehicle. In the Tacoma I use a Bracketeer mounting bracket, in the TR a H3R universal bracket.
www.zoro.com
No images at hand for the extinguisher mounted low on the front passenger seat in the Tacoma, but here's the mount in the TR:
Amerex Fire Extinguisher, 2B:C, Halotron, 2.5 lb B385TS | Zoro
Order Amerex Fire Extinguisher, 2B:C, Halotron, 2.5 lb, B385TS at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.
www.zoro.com
No images at hand for the extinguisher mounted low on the front passenger seat in the Tacoma, but here's the mount in the TR:
patoz
Expedition Leader
I don't know where you read that, but Purple K (aka Potassium Bicarbonate) is very corrosive, especially around electronics or aluminum. PKP's main use is for flammable liquid fires. It is the second most effective dry chemical in fighting class B (flammable liquid) fires after Monnex (potassium allophanate), and can be used against some energized electrical equipment fires (USA class C fires).
I am a Professional Firefighter and retired as a District Fire Chief after 30 years. I worked for the DoD on a military base, and half of my career was on a large airfield. We had PKP extinguishers everywhere. If we had to use one on an aircraft, and that powder got inside any of the compartments, electronics, or engine components, then everything it touched had to be torn down, inspected, and rebuilt immediately before corrosion could take place.
They will do the job when you really need them, but I wouldn't dump one on my engine just because it had a backfire fire in the carburetor, or something silly like that.
You can read more about PKP Extinguishers here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple-K
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patoz
Expedition Leader
What...fire guys being destructive... say it isn't so!
All of our extinguishers had hoses on them. We carried the 20 lb. and 30 lb. units and they are way too heavy to wave around and try to direct the discharge at the fire. We had the CO2 pressure cartage on the side exactly like the picture you see here.
chet6.7
Explorer
Thanks for the info.I read about Purple K on several forums,it was said that it was less corrosive than ABC. I googled "Purple K less corrosive than ABC" and got hits saying the same."Both PKP and regular BC agents are alkaline in nature and are less corrosive than the acidic ABC dry chemical such as monoammonium phosphate."
I did some more reading just now and I am seeing differing info on corrosion. The main thing I just read,also again,some differing info about using ABC and Purple K at the same time. One source talks about not mixing the agents in a fire extinguisher,that does not apply to me.The other source said mixing the two agents on a fire would reduce the effectiveness of the PK.
Do you have definitive info on using ABC and PK on the same fire?
I was carrying 1 CO2,and 2 ABC,I just recently swapped out one of the ABC's for the PK.
The reason I carry 3 is there were a number of Ram trucks burning to the ground,initially the cause was unknown.It was traced down to components that were the subject of recalls,a water pump and a 220A alternator. I posted a youtube of a guys Jeep burning to the ground,the 1 FE he carried was not effective.The location of that fire, low and behind the engine next to the firewall would be a challenge. I don't subscribe to the idea of letting the vehicle burn if I am in the back country. I need the supplies in the truck.