EPA Diesel Engine “Delete Tuning” Crackdown...Is It Here Now?

luthj

Engineer In Residence
As far as "non-emissions" tunes. Such as increasing power. They can be done in a responsible way. However, since most tuners can't afford the testing to confirm, they will get treated the same as the less scrupulous ones.

Trans and other module tunes can affect emissions in indirect ways, but tend to fly under the radar, at least for now.

One of the easiest ways to increase power is to change the injection timing and duration. This also tends to improve efficiency. Unfortunately its incredibly easy to create 10x the allowed amount of NOx this way. It takes thousands of hours on dynos and road testing to dial in the fuel system to keep NOx under control. That's part of the reason it took so long to catch VW, is because the emissions standards are actually over a certain number of miles, not a single speed/temp regime.
 

zoomad75

Observer
Diesel emissions is still in a very early stage of development. Advancement in the electronics and new technology will help clean them up. For any of the old farts around here take a trip down memory lane and try to remember what the late 70's up through the 80's were like for emissions garbage on gas engines (car and truck). Miles upon miles of vacuum hose, EGR systems, AIR pumps, carbs with limited adjustments (or crappy basic computer controls), electronic ignition modules and pellet style catalytic converters. Remember how well those systems worked? They sucked! Folks were stripping them of the computer controlled carbs, EGR's and air pumps if they were in non-emission testing counties. Yes that was just as illegal then as this stuff is now.

Why I bring that dark time back into light is the OEM's figured it out. Technology improved and with more modern fuel injection systems and more precise computer controls for timing and fuel, the newer stuff ran cleaner without the EGR's and AIR pumps they once had. Look at any new gas powered truck and the only emissions components you'll see is the catalytic converters, EVAP system and PCV system. They run clean enough to not require the other crap. But looking at the modern V8's we have now in trucks we have more standard power than ever with better fuel economy than we did back then.

They are working on the technology now for sure as the emissions regs will continue to get tighter. We will probably see the same type of increase in power/economy with a reduction of emissions as they eliminate the need for some of the garbage by running cleaner to start with.
 
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shade

Well-known member
Diesel emissions is still in a very early stage of development. Advancement in the electronics and new technology will help clean them up. For any of the old farts around here take a trip down memory lane and try to remember what the late 70's up through the 80's were like for emissions garbage on gas engines (car and truck). Miles upon miles of vacuum hose, EGR systems, AIR pumps, carbs with limited adjustments (or crappy basic computer controls), electronic ignition modules and pellet style catalytic converters. Remember how well those systems worked? They sucked! Folks were stripping them of the computer controlled carbs, EGR's and air pumps if they were in non-emission testing counties. Yes that was just as illegal then as this stuff is now.

Why I bring that dark time back into light is the OEM's figured it out. Technology improved and with more modern fuel injection systems and more precise computer controls for timing and fuel, the newer stuff ran cleaner without the EGR's and AIR pumps they once had. Look at any new gas powered truck and the only emissions components you'll see is the catalytic converters, EVAP system and PCV system. They run clean enough to not require the other crap. But looking at the modern V8's we have now in trucks we have more standard power than ever with better fuel economy than we did back then.

They are working on the technology now for sure as the emissions regs will continue to get tighter. We will probably see the same type of increase in power/economy with a reduction of emissions as they eliminate the need for some of the garbage by running cleaner to start with.
OEMs may figure out how to clean up diesel exhaust without complicated systems, but the market has changed enough that it may not matter for light trucks & cars, at least not in the North American market. I know diesel cars are much more popular in Europe, so it may live on longer there.

With hybrid and EV tech seeing so much development in those segments, I think diesel may be fully relegated to commercial/industrial use, where the advantages of the fuel are more apparent.
 

Bama67

Member
While I get it, I am not a fan of more government over-reach.

I believe this to be a case of "do as I say, not as I do"
The amount of pollution the US government puts out is HUGE. They DGAF.

Also, what is the actual percentage of private citizens that delete their diesel emissions equipment? I would wager maybe 1-2%.

First the gubment outlaws diesel mods, next it's your larger aftermarket tires as they increases fuel consumption, next it's your steel ARB bumper as it's a hazard to other motorists. Etc. Etc.

But yes I agree, Coal rollers are retarded.

Also, diesel sucks anyway unless you need to tow more than 15k pounds regularly.

A Ford 7.3 or 6.2 makes waaay more sense than a 1050 ft lb diesel for 99% of people.
 

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
Slightly higher thermodynamic efficiency. The ability to burn less refined (cheaper) fuels. Such as bunker oil (big marine applications).
Better fuel economy and the potential to use waste oils would be beneficial to an individual driver.
 

plumber mike

Adventurer
Older used diesel truck prices will soon exceed new ones.

And deletes will go back underground. We will probably see more back alley abortions using radio shack resistors.

I kept my 1990 Diesel truck in the event I wasn’t happy with my new one. They’ve been talking about actually enforcing this since they implemented it. I’m all for cleaner air, but don’t think the powers that be can organize well enough to accomplish what they set out to do.
 

LRNAD90

Adventurer
It's not illegal for the manufacturer to void the warranty if the owner of the vehicle modified it. The main point of any manufacturer's warranty is to repair defects in materials or workmanship. How is a failure due to any modifications the manufacturer's fault? It's pretty clearly written in the warranty manual that 99% of the driving public never reads anyway.

I've been in the industry for 25 years now and the ability for the manufacturer to void the warranty due to modifications hasn't changed. If anything they are getting ahead of it by giving us dealers tighter requirements and checking calibrations prior to major repairs to ensure the vehicle hasn't been tuned.

Personally I don't have an issue if a truck is tuned as long as the person is upfront about it and not expecting warranty coverage for a powertrain related issue. I'm not going to stop anybody from doing it but I've told those thinking about it what it will do to the warranty if there are issues.
The original post I responded to indicated the manufacturer was voiding the entire warranty on the vehicle. I'm still pretty sure it is illegal for the manufacturer to deny warranty coverage for something non related. They can't deny a Warranty claim for, I dunno, failed seat heaters, or infortainment system, because you modified the engine, unless they can show that the modification caused the failure. Maybe I am wrong (it wouldn't be the first time), but I'm pretty sure that is how it works in the US.

Now I suppose they could report you to state or local authorities for modifying the emissions systems, or say go away or we will, but I think the US law still requires them to honor the vehicle's warranty on NON related parts.
 

zoomad75

Observer
The original post I responded to indicated the manufacturer was voiding the entire warranty on the vehicle. I'm still pretty sure it is illegal for the manufacturer to deny warranty coverage for something non related. They can't deny a Warranty claim for, I dunno, failed seat heaters, or infortainment system, because you modified the engine, unless they can show that the modification caused the failure. Maybe I am wrong (it wouldn't be the first time), but I'm pretty sure that is how it works in the US.

Now I suppose they could report you to state or local authorities for modifying the emissions systems, or say go away or we will, but I think the US law still requires them to honor the vehicle's warranty on NON related parts.
They won't void the entire vehicle warranty. They can terminate the warranty for just the powertrain. I know, I've done it in the past when I was at GM in Detroit. They have a bulletin with very specific instructions on how to begin the process. As of right now they are not reporting the modifications to the state or federal authorities.
 

shade

Well-known member
Better fuel economy and the potential to use waste oils would be beneficial to an individual driver.
I was also considering the lack of gasoline engines for those applications. Semi tractors & locomotives aren't running on gasoline, and I doubt they ever will.

Those applications, as well as stationary diesels, like backup power generators, also typically run for long periods with little change in load & rpm, so they can be optimized to reduce pollution better than a car that revs & idles often.
 

luthj

Engineer In Residence
Passenger vehicles do present emissions issues that are not as prevalent in the commercial or heavy diesel segments. Operating at low loads, frequent short trips, Cheap owners ;), limited weight/space, NVH requirements, etc.
 
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