Engine Swap ideas and real world performance: Will it/won't it.

[4Rescue]

SO I posted another thread as I'm on the hunt for a diesel swap into my 1st Gen 4Runner... Brick wall after brick wall have led us to change up our approach (I'm still looking for a way to get an oil burner in my 4Runner but that may be farther down the road) and we're exploring the possibility of importing an LHD HZJ75 or similar vehicle (a Diesel G wagon is also on the list). We WILL be going to Diesel's at some point but the US is so screwed up in it's thinking and fear of Diesel that our time frames have changed and our ideas are evolving to cover bases while we wait out "the one".

So, in the mean time, I'm looking to increase the towing capacity of my 4Runner and get myself better milage if possible. SO, being that I'm not finding ANY way to get a Diesel I want (meaning no 4bt's or VW TDi's) in it, I've thought about putting a 3.4, 2.7L I4 or an SC/Turbo Set-up into the 4Runner.

The premise here is my dad and I "share" vehicles and tools/equiptemnt and of late his XJ has been going into the ground. SO, we are gonna be in need of something that we can tow our SRW Dump-trailer around with as the XJ is going bye bye. SO, while I figure out how to get my dream vehicle here and work that out, I'm STILL gonna need to up the towing power of the 4Runner and I'd like to increase the mileage (by way of not having to stand on it to get it up to speed) to some degree. Now I'm not towing this trailer up over Mt. Hood and right now the 22RE tows my little utility trailer just fine. I'm talking about towing it to Home Depot or the gavel yard and I'm looking for the ability to pull say 5000lbs. maybe... haven't put it on the scales??? We typicaly are limited to a1.5-2yds of gravel per trip behind the XJ and thats a fine capacity for us. We also heat both our houses with wood-stoves so we do a lot of cutting/hauling etc. We don't want to buy a FS pickup, so I'm sticking with the Trucks we have and the 4Runner has a very clean frame underneath that was beefed up here and there when I put the Marlin Bumper on it, and the OME springs have the capacity with added Air-bags/coil-overloads for necessity and I'm not worried about the semi-short W/B as I'm not towing the big trailer at high speed, just through town. Brakes would be upgraded and I'm planning on an R151. The trailer has Ele. brakes as well so it's ver nice on the truck as is and I'd beef up the coolers for the tow duty as well. The Idea behind these motors for the swap is they're common and they go in with a lot less fuss then say an I6 Supra Motor... Awesome option, but I've been reading it's a LOT more work to get them into the relatively small/short engine bay.

The Jeeps 4.0L is great for towing and it's torque (it's bone stock BTW but it's an "up-Country" w/Tow package so it's got 4.10 axles I believe), my question then is: With my 4.88 gears/33x10.5 tires, would a 3.4L pull the same trailer that the stock 4.0L would??? Would a Super-Charged or Turbo'd 22RE from LC or someone do it??? Would a 3RZ be a better engine to put an SC on???

What are the real world capabilities of one of these trucks. Having the non towing power over the 22RE will certainly be nice going up over the passes around here and the NW, but what engine swap is going to give me the towing power (remember were talking runs to the dump and the gravel yard here not hauling a car trailer down I5 for 500miles) when I need it, but give me added power and there for better long range fuel economy when I'm using it as a DD or a camping rig??? This is one of the myriad of reasons I want a Diesel (the VGT Intl. 2.3L motor looks neat cause it's got similar -actually greater- torque number to the 4.0L but the fuel econ. unladen would be a HUGE advantage... alas not gonna happen, sadly neither is a 1KZ-TE or D4D anytime soon if ever and the available Merc. Diesels don't seem to get me to the 250-300lb-ft of Torque I'm wanting) but clearly that's just not in the cards so what's the best All-Toyota option to do in it's place while we work out how to get the "other truck" over here???

3.4L V6, Turbo'd/SC'd 22RE, SC'd 3RZ... Those are what I'm coming up with for Toyota swap options that would go into my 4Runner with little fuss. Not interested in a Chevy 4.3 or a SBC/Ford V8 swaps...

Also on the table (sadly for me and I'm not sure I want to do it) would be seling the 1st Gen and buying a 1st Gen Taco Quad-Cab 3.4L/5spd 4wd, so would THAT pull the same as the 4.0L XJ???

So what is the real-world performance of these swaps??? What would you do??? Does any of that make sense??? I've been working in the sun all day with nothing but this to think about and I've got a little nuts so I apologize for any incoherent trains of thought I may have run off one...

Cheers

Dave

 

[jeverich]

Project?

Seriously, the engine alone is worth twice what he's asking...

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3906281876.html

 

[sparksgarrett45]

Thought about an OM617 TD swap? Sounds like a perfect way to go. I will be doing the swap myself within the next year. tdswaps.com i believe has the full swap kit. Check it out! I know mercedes diesels are readily available almost everywhere...

 

[4Rescue]

WOW!!!!!!!!! I just emialed the guy and we'l see if I can get a responce... I HATE CL sometimes cause nobody ever gets back to you and everyone get;s pissy when you ask "is X item still available but whatever... THAT would be the perfect solutio cause I can;t even find the MOTOR and I surmise that LCNW might just do the swap for me if I had the harness and the engine... hell I'd SELL the 2nd gen and buy a new R151 and be on my way THANK YOU SIR for that link. I've got my fingers crossed that I can get it cause you;re right, THAT is a deal and a half... I just got SO excited that the Diesel option (and a 1KZ at that) is back on the table!!!!! Seriously, you just made my night mate... KNEW I could count on Expo to help me out. I've missed this place

Edit: Well... I'm first on the list to buy it if I decide to do it... Guy called me back within 5MIN (guess CL CAN work after all aye :lol: ) and we chatted, nice bloke from the UK living in Seattle and was really happy to hear from someone who wanted the whole package, not just the engine or parts etc. (he had 3 calls right odd but they were nickle and dimers looking for parts or just the engine). SO, I'm going over the numbers and looking at what the :all in" would be with having Marlin build me a "Diesel application"" R151 Manual and I still gotta find a shop to do it, but this looks to be my ticket to an il burner in my Toyota and a 1KZ-T to boot... I'm SO HAPPY. Hell by this time next week I MIGHT just have a 1KZ-T sitting in the barn waiting to go in my Toyota!!!

THANK YOU JEVERICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Sparksgarrett45: I'd thought about a Merc. Diesel (love Mercedes and I have full faith in their Diesel motors as well) but I'd always heard that the common Merc. Diesels everryone uses were a little "low out-put" in some respects. To be honet, I don't know the specifics of each individual version so I'll be looking up the 617 to get a feel for what it is exaclty vs the other OM motors... Thank you very much for he suggestion and if this CL prospect doesn;t turn out to be "the one" then I'll keep looking t the Merc. Diesels. is there a readily available manual tans for them??? Maybe a bell-housing to bolt to a Toyota 5-spd??? Thanks for the TDswaps Link as well, I had it in my old Comp. but apprently it didn;t make the crossover to the new Laptop and I'd forgotten about it.

In the interest of covering bases, my original questions still stand: What non-diesel Toyota Motor would give me good towing capability in my 1st gen???

Thanks to both of you for the responses, I very much appreciate you taking the time to read my nonsense and answer me.

Cheers and No Worries

Dave

 

[jeverich]

Glad it worked out for ya!

I was thinking about buying it, but really don't have the time for a project vehicle at the moment... Really glad that he still has it, that's very surprising. Shoot, I'd just do that swap yourself!

I'll let you know if I'm ever planning on heading through Tigard...:sombrero:

 

[4Rescue]

:lol: Well, I'm glad you passed on the info mate, sorry that you wont be doing a swap of your own, but... I can't lie... I'm giddy like a school girl and if all goes according to plan and I can make all the particulars line out/it is what he says it is (don't see what it wouldn't be, guys a very knowledgeable and Toyota savy chap and very friendly) I'll be buying it and hauling it down here next week. I've written to Landcruisers Northwest to see if they will do the swap with me providing the engine and we'll see what they say. With the engine in hand this becomes MUCH easier because sourcing the engine and all the "stuff" is the part no one can guarantee and therefore won;t book the job/discuss the concept.

And mate... if I do this and when I get it in... You're always welcome at my house/in my truck :sombrero: . I feel like I should send you a case or two of beer just for the shout cause this has just been THE BEST news after being pretty bummed out about all the roadblocks I was coming into. I started looking for a half-cut 4 years ago and then gave up but started looking again about a month ago and was finding NOTHING. IN one short Email I've gone from pretty much reigning myself to "just" doing a 3.4L swap to the very real possibility of having a 1KZ-T powered 1st Gen.

BUT, now I'm wondering, do I beef up the rear suspension (possibly even putting longer, Taco or LC length OME leafs out back) of the 2nd Gen and swap my Marlin bumper over (I've got the matching Front bumper in the barn so I'm wondering if I can make it fit a 2nd Gen. I don't take the top off much at all, BUT I also have a 2nd top and a West-Fallia pop-up that I was going to graft together to make a "factory-based" camper top for it. BUT, I can see having 4-Doors as being a VERY good thing after living with the 1st Gen all these years. I LOVE my 1st Gen... Every day I get in it and it reminds me of being in Australia. Between the two I like he 1st gen's looks SO much more (and I really like the 2nd gen so that's how much I love the 1st Gen's) but in reality the Super Turtle (my 1st Gen) need a few bits of work here and there (interior bits falling apart, some spots where our "super great" drivers in this country tried t kill me (Toyota 4 other cars 0 :lol: ). The 2nd Gen has a nice leather (needs a bit of work here and there but nothing major and I run heavy duty seat-covers) interior and that could be good or bad cause even with 4 Doors my intention is to keep MAYBE on rear lower eat cushion and basically run it as a flat-bed most of the time (my 1st gen hasn't had rear seats in 4 years). I'd likely make the rear more utilitarian and keep the "nicer" front interior (not sure how I feel about the 2nd gen's interior lay-out compared to the 1st Gen's but that's just cause I've never really lived with one but I could see it being an upgrade in a couple places (I hang lots of "stuff" in my interior from my GPS to my Galaxy mounted like a Go-Pro on the dash, secure pistol locker, Ele. brake controller, quick access Emergency medical/extraction kit and plans for a tablet mounted in front of the gates seat for nai. on road trips -and so the wife can play angry birds on the boring parts of the ride hahaha) and I'm betting the seats will be more supportive then my current units. And again 4 doors... yeah we sleep in the back so the rear-doors might just be a big bonus for getting in/out at night and for loading... Starting to look more and more like the 1st Gen might get turned into a trail toy (or sold... but only if I HAVE TO :sad: ) and the 2nd Gen will get the Diesel. I've always wanted a 1st Gen and now that I have one the thought of parting with it is hard to say the least but I just think the 2nd Gen might be the better choice for a "lifer" vehicle since we're gonna add to our twosome here sometime in the next two years.

Best part about all this though: My Wife saying "Dave, this is SO cool, we could do some SERIOUS road-trips with a truck like this and imagine how much easier it'll be to get out to the Lost Forrest and what not now that our range will be so much better and you'll have better power for pulling up over the mountains" (we had to carry a LOT of extra fuel to get out there last time). Having her use words like "range" and "power"... well She's a keeper just like this truck will be, I can say that on a family forum :lol:

Cheers and no worries

Dave

 

[Clutch]

just drop a L33 in there, find those for around $1000

310 hp 335 lb·ft

or if you're a stickler for toyota

1UZ-FE

2UZ-FE

 

[tanglefoot]

I think the 5VZ-E 3.4 would do the trick nicely and be very comparable if not better than the 4.0 HO from Jeep. It does have very nice low-end torque (I believe the ads claimed 80% of max torque at 2,000 rpm). I drive both my over-loaded 22RE and my parents' 3rd-gen 4runner with the 3.4 and 5-speed. With the 3rd gen, we tow a 2200 lb runabout boat and even while towing, I usually short-shift it. It also easily gets the boat moving up the ramp without low-range (not an option with the 22RE). The 3.4 is even more potent in the Tacoma than in the 4Runner (slightly higher power numbers and less weight). I've towed the same boat with the 22RE and the 3.4 gets it moving from a stop and up to speed so much easier and faster.

BTW, I don't think the 1st gen double cab Taco in 4wd was available with the 5-speed, only the 4-speed auto.

Good luck!

 

[Flagster]

just drop a L33 in there, find those for around $1000

310 hp 335 lb·ft

or if you're a stickler for toyota

1UZ-FE

2UZ-FE

with a manual??
think it has been done but not easy...

I would love to go 4.7L route in my 60 but want to keep a manual

 

[Clutch]

with a manual??
think it has been done but not easy...

I would love to go 4.7L route in my 60 but want to keep a manual

have to make a custom bellhousing, among other things

chevy already has adapters...plus has a lower center of gravity since it isn't an over head cam engine....great great engines, alot of bang for the buck.

that or yank the drive train out of an FJCruiser, engine/trans/transfer case and build new driveshafts...I know SDHQ has done LS swaps into those, who knows they might still have engine laying around.

not a toyota engine....




this is kinda funny, from where i found the pic

Hi everybody!! This is my first post in probably a couple years. Mir sent it to me - I work with him as my CEO at Ashima Research.

These pictures remind me of the lesson I learned - which is don't ever, ever do what I did. There are many reasons but the first is dramatically illustrated here in these photos.

True to rumor my truck was hardly ever used offroad. Instead, it ended up like this one - as a revenue source for builders and a static showpiece almost always up on stands. I really regret that my goal to build a 'great' FJ ended up ruining any chances to enjoy it. So many great experiences that my family and I were never able to share with you guys as a result. I would always get PMs from people going on trips and have to decline because as usual my truck was being 'built'.

After it was all said and done my investment was a total waste of $130K and two years. In the 3 years I owned it, it was probably drivable about 8 months. All day I would be sawing away at Demello's and then all night scanning Google Earth for the next cool place to go. I was fooling myself because it would just never get done.

This SDHQ truck is a bigger repeat of the same mistake. By the time it's done the owner could have bought two used trophy trucks and spent all that time on the trails. But the very competent folks at SDHQ probably know that the day they stop building is the day the money dries up. Consequently it will sit on jackstands for the next two years while the builder tries to come up with new things to do to it, feeling out the owner for how much money he can still squeeze out in these desperate times.

I'm pretty amazed the new owner is still flogging away. Looks like they beat my record for most precious hours wasted with your FJ in the shop. I thought I was dumb, but man this takes the cake. Somebody is being played for a real sucker here.

OK, I need to lighten up but for God's sake please spend your weekends out on the trails and NOT getting caught up in the coolest FJ BS.

If you still want to go crazy, do not convert a street vehicle to a race vehicle. Do it the other way around and save 3/4 the cost. As you can see this truck had to be completely eviscerated to an empty shell and what you end up with you could have bought used and converted to street much much cheaper and easier.

Buying a used race vehicle ensures that somebody else blew the money and you didn't. You get all the indestructible race pieces, and more importantly they all fit and work together as a unit - unlike adding piecemeal parts to a street vehicle. In my case it was a waiting game for the next weakest link to break: supercharger, transmission, rear end etc etc.

When this SDHQ truck is done it will still lag far behind a proper tube frame race truck, will cost 3 times as much as a used race truck, will still break, and will have removed years from the owner's trail time.

think the same can be said for going down the engine swap road....just buy another vehicle....like 4Runner with a V8 already in there.



ya know, a Nissan Xterra has a V6 260hp/280tq with a manny trans....can be found cheap...

 

[paddlenbike]

The 1kz-te in Seattle looks promising, but if that doesn't work out, I would recommend going the 3.4 route. The 3.4 and 4.0 Jeep have the exact same power and torque (190hp and 220 ft lbs), assuming the 4-liter is the "high output" version, but the Toyota is far ahead of the Jeep motor in the technology department. The aluminum heads, double overhead camshafts, 4 valves per cylinder and coil-on plug ignition will give you higher fuel economy, while the Jeep motor is iron block and head, pushrod and really old-school fuel injection. The 3.4 will breathe a lot better at altitude. Do a search on the net for people putting 3.4's in their Jeeps, it's becoming more and more common. You don't go the other way around.

I ran my 3.4 for 6 years before I supercharged it, and it's a great motor. Plenty of power and good economy. Supercharged it's even better--I should be around 285 hp with my upgrades and I still get 20 MPG highway even with a 2.5-3" lift and 32-1/2" tires. These motors are not expensive either because there isn't much demand for them, they just keep going.

 

[Clutch]

I ran my 3.4 for 6 years before I supercharged it, and it's a great motor. Plenty of power and good economy. Supercharged it's even better--I should be around 285 hp with my upgrades and I still get 20 MPG highway even with a 2.5-3" lift and 32-1/2" tires. These motors are not expensive either because there isn't much demand for them, they just keep going.

what upgrades did you do? 7th injector, headers, complete exhaust?

I do alot of hemming and hawing on "my" perfect vehicle...I keep on thinking just staying with my first gen Taco might be the best option. mid to high 200's in horsepower and torque would be perfect for my needs.

 

[paddlenbike]

what upgrades did you do?

I do alot of hemming and hawing on "my" perfect vehicle...I keep on thinking just staying with my first gen Taco might be the best option. high 200's in horsepower and torque would be perfect for my needs.

Toyota advertised the old 1st gen supercharger at 265 hp and the black ones apparently make 5 hp more for 270 hp.

My only mods are the deckplate mod, a Trueflow air filter and the URD 7th injector upgrade, so I think I am being pretty conservative by adding only 15 hp for those mods. When I did the URD upgrade, the performance increase was very noticeable.

 

[Clutch]

Thanks Paddlenbike!

Always thought they were in the 240 hp range.

 

[paddlenbike]

Thanks Paddlenbike!

Always thought they were in the 240 hp range.

235-240 hp at the wheels (tested by dyno) is fairly common . Multiply by 20% for driveline and tire losses on a 4WD truck to get an estimate at the crank.