This is quite entertaining, but really the mountain khakis just pushed it over the top for me (rolling my eyes). I must admit I tune in and enjoy the questioning, banter, bashing, etc. of the haves and have nots. I have to hand it to Bill for hanging in there and brushing the dirt off and keeping it alive (not here to debate the underpinnings of that one...). However, I do have to say that I am little disappointed with this thread. While the tone of many (including myself) questioning the pricing, value, engineering, and components of what it takes probably hasn't been communicated in the best manner, the tone of the "super elite" and "knowledgeable" has been less than stellar and educating on some of the questions. Rather, it has been quite elitist and demeaning. Instead of sharing some of the "knowledge" and "vast expertise" it is a foray of vague defense and that the questioner is obviously out of their league, price range, or knowledge base and not qualified statements/tone. Well, duh! If it were so painfully obvious to the "pebble brains" why new tires and suspension would cost $14,293 + $16,413 + air compressor (where did that option go?) $2k? = ~$32,606, then there wouldn't be a debate now would there. If I'm not mistaken I believe this forum was setup to do just that and generate a means to other revenue, not get your face bashed in for asking questions or questioning to seek further enlightenment (while still giving a means to further revenue for my participation). Let's run with it...
Suspension upgrades:
$2,250 ($450x5) tires
$5,000 wheels, ($1,000 x5)
$2000-$4000 adapters? 2-3 each? x 4 x $500-$1,000? How many adapters does it take to bolt these babies on???
$500 to mount the tires on the wheels?
$200 to tighten all the lugs with a really big torque wrench?
$1,000 bigger fender flares / more wheel well cutting
$1,343-$3,093 profit (gross of a ton of overhead, liability, etc)
------------
$14,293
Kelderman air suspension for F550:
http://www.keldermanmfg.com/pdf/Kelderman Air Ride System Price List.pdf
This price list is a few years old, but we'll run with it.
$4,000 Rear 4-bag 4-link
$1,200 Front
$1,000 leveling kit / controls / whatever
$5k? Install. Add another $2k for kicks. A "normal" lift kit can range from $3-5k
$2,000-$3,000 liability/overhead/profit
$16,413
Out of line? Probably not...
There is always the question of what happened to the original set of 5 wheels, adapters, and tires that are probably 1/2 the amount of the upgrade that should be embedded in the cost of the ER base. That's all extra profit... Is the upgrade the same price if you choose to do it after? Maybe that is the better route, then you have all your tires and wheels... I do think and agree some of the options are a bit over the top and chuckle why they aren't embedded in the base as well. I always laughed at the wood ladder (which isn't listed now...), but in this segment you can do that. It isn't a mass produced vehicle with economies of scale... and what is a few thousand here and there in the scheme of $250k...
ER's are cool vehicles, no doubt. I would love one sitting next to my house ready for the next adventure. I have been in a few. I have sat with Bill in one after traveling several hundred extra miles just to speak and talk to the designer himself.
Instead, I have a HD and LD pickup with a camper and several 00k logged of adventures over the last decade+ I dream often of having something more heavy duty and am in the camp of how could I build up a new 3500, 4500, 5500 truck to replace the current that is beefier, will take me further and feel safer and more confident to get out on my own (I rarely travel with others). I will upgrade and probably soon. Let me know what your statement of working on the lighter duty truck options entails Bill. I'm very interested in the design and price point.
Scott et. al. I'm not looking for a pair of free mountain khakis or an Econ 101 lesson of supply and demand. I'm looking for YOUR "vast knowledge and expertise" and answers of what it truly does take to incorporate components like this or running with others who have done it. Some do well of offering it on this forum, which brings me back quite often, but many have a chip on their shoulder, which is certainly the normal manly macho forum m.o. I can get that from looking in the mirror!
Let us not forget the original adventures of B.S. in his Dodge and popup. He wanted more... Something better... He wasn't a traveling doctor, media mogul, husband of a porn star, elite adventurist, etc., etc., etc. choosing between a Prevost or $400-500k coach or a super cool offroadie thing to park in his driveway or next to his new G650. He was a normal guy trying to get further into adventures without freezing his ***** off to take some good pictures and help others do the same. What happened to that??? Many on here and abound can relate to this. When did this turn elite??? "How could I do something similar, maybe not as extreme, for $50-$100k less" "Could I do this on my own?" "What would it take?" "My stock / stock options etc. are 50% what they were in the heyday, so the goal/dream is a bit further away now."
I don't get the Ferrari, etc. comparisons which make me literally laugh out loud. We are talking about a vehicle manufactured by FoMoCo with some big wheels bolted on and upfitted with a high-end camper box. The truck will always be a Ford. The camper box, engineering/ design experience, and outfitting work is impressive, no question, but how we jump to the Ferrari status is a little perplexing other than in the price / demographic comparison. Let's leave the apples and oranges on the opposite ends of the counter. It would be better to compare to the quality of cabinets I can buy at home depot or structure compared to a toothpick RV adding to the price of upfitted box bolted on.
Bill, I like the renewed external facing jump into the forum and has great potential of eliminating a lot of the crap flying in the air. It also lowers the elite mantra to many out there who do dream of having or making an equivalent of what you have done and certainly helps the future customer factor.
I'd truly love to see some knowledge thrown around of what it takes to build an Earthroamer or more specifically the topic of this thread of the suspension upgrade instead of the blanket defense of sponsors or by owners feeling pummeled and justifying the outlay. Maybe not realistically from Bill himself (he doesn't have to reveal his trade secrets/profits). The hours, the components, how the front axles have held up with the handful running with the MPT setup, the pros, the cons. Turn off the secret society and maybe there won't be so many questions. What could you do on the Price / quality trade off spectrum?
Give me some knowledge all knowing ones. I seek to learn...
There's the challenge! No sticker or Khakis needed.
