Earth Cruiser -DEF

Reconnoiter

New member
I desperately want a diesel Earth Cruiser, without DEF. This is my hypothesis:

Fuso had a successful business, selling Diesels around the world. The United States, in 2008, required DEF systems be implemented. That becomes such a nightmare for Fuso, that they decide to switch to gasoline only in the USA. Gasoline engines did not sell well, because so many people want diesel, but DEF systems were such a nightmare Fuso decides to stop selling in North America completely, rather than having to deal with DEF system related warranty issues.

If Fuzo refuses to deal with a DEF system on a vehicle, why shouldn’t I?

Switching to the LCF Chevrolet will give you more power (5.2L diesel), but you’ll still have DEF.

I want to purchase a 2007 (pre-DEF) GMC W4500, and have Earth Cruiser put their 4x4 conversion, and camper, on that. I realize there won’t be a warranty on the engine & transmission, but I’ll save so much money on the cab and chassis, I can pay for those repairs myself, and still come out way ahead.

Companies respond to demand in the market.
Who’s with me? 😊
 
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ScottPC

New member
Moving away from diesel is the future, like it or not. Ford and Mercedes are doing this too. It just pollutes the air too much. It kind of sucks seeing trucks in ultra pristine locations pumping that black smoke in the air. Finding a used engine is great but hard to justify coupling that with an expensive new "house/habitat/box". I'm sure EarthCrusier would work with you, though you'd likely have to pay up front rather than through installments as this would be an "odd duck" build. Give 'em a call.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
DEF isint that big of a deal, its pissing into a pipe.. literally, the only thing that sucks about it is the lockout from driving it when its empty or has some sort of fault.. but its just a pump, a nozzle, a catalyst, and a couple sensors to for tank level and to make sure its actually UREA in the tank.. thats it, and thats all emissions crap that has to be warrantied.

Its other emissions requirements requirements that makes em drive like gassers because sitting all day at peak torque/fuel efficiency is also peak soot and nox so the auto gearboxes ride way past the powerband and shift late is the only way to get em certified and then whats the point, might as well get a gasser and have some horsepower way up there in the RPM range.. they cant even get manual diesels certified anymo.
 

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Reconnoiter

New member
Moving away from diesel is the future, like it or not. Ford and Mercedes are doing this too. It just pollutes the air too much. It kind of sucks seeing trucks in ultra pristine locations pumping that black smoke in the air. Finding a used engine is great but hard to justify coupling that with an expensive new "house/habitat/box". I'm sure EarthCrusier would work with you, though you'd likely have to pay up front rather than through installments as this would be an "odd duck" build. Give 'em a call.
My understanding is that the pollution from diesel, while vile and ugly, is heavy and settles to the ground, as opposed to rising into the atmosphere like gas fumes, but I am completely unqualified to debate that. Figure out a way to put the Earth Cruiser habitat on a Cyber Truck, and I’m all in!!! 😊
 

Reconnoiter

New member
DEF isint that big of a deal, its pissing into a pipe.. literally, the only thing that sucks about it is the lockout from driving it when its empty or has some sort of fault.. but its just a pump, a nozzle, a catalyst, and a couple sensors to for tank level and to make sure its actually UREA in the tank.. thats it, and thats all emissions crap that has to be warrantied.

Its other emissions requirements requirements that makes em drive like gassers because sitting all day at peak torque/fuel efficiency is also peak soot and nox so the auto gearboxes ride way past the powerband and shift late is the only way to get em certified and then whats the point, might as well get a gasser and have some horsepower way up there in the RPM range.. they cant even get manual diesels certified anymo.
A friend of mine has over 100 diesel box trucks and stake beds that he rents to the film industry. He’s slowly switching everything over to gas because the DEF systems were giving them so much trouble.
I like diesel for three reasons. You can heat and cook with it (no propane refills), it’s less dangerous than gas, and you can go further on a given number of gallons.
 

ScottPC

New member
DEF isint that big of a deal, its pissing into a pipe.. literally, the only thing that sucks about it is the lockout from driving it when its empty or has some sort of fault.. but its just a pump, a nozzle, a catalyst, and a couple sensors to for tank level and to make sure its actually UREA in the tank.. thats it, and thats all emissions crap that has to be warrantied.
It's only a big deal when you don't have it. I have 2107 Duramax that we primarily use for towing a horse trailer. When not doing that, I have a slide in truck camper. If I wanted to take this setup internationally, I'd have to ensure I could replenish the DEF. DEF also has a relatively short shelf life so, if my trip were to last a year or more, I'd have to have some sort of supply network. Operating in North America it's not a big deal but another consideration. Higher Diesel fuel $$$ + DEF + Fuel Filter change + higher cost of engine increases overall cost of ownership. It's also heavier than a gasoline engine. That said, it tows like boss but just not needed for the truck camper.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
Yeah when towing it really chews through DEF, I filled it up at several truck stops before... they got em at the pumps, you dont needa carry em with yeh, its cheap as ******** too.. full tank was like $8, wallmart was like $12.. If you leave North America with a Common Rail Diesel yer in for more trouble with finding ULSD or just quality fuel that wont tear up that 30k psi HPFP and the expensive injectors.. heck most dont even come w/drainable water seperators you gotta add em your self.

That said my DEF system is currently sitting in a box in my garage, its never gonna give me trouble there.. its not like you cant get rid of em if you are so inclined.

Diesel is same cost as petrol right now, diesel has to be about 33% more to break even on efficiency, and I drive boosted vehicles here in the mountains so its more like compare it to premium prices.. DEF is consumed at 2.5% per gallon of diesel and its cheaper than fuel by a vast margin, take out the crap OEM filters and add some aftermarket 2Micron Cat ones you can get for cheap, last forever and you can see if you got a filter full of water.. Diesel Premium sucks, but I've paid more for less automotive upgrade wise.

I'll keep buying dirty diesels as long as they keep making em.. but its been hard lately with everyone pulling out.
 
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ScottPC

New member
Yeah when towing it really chews through DEF, I filled it up at several truck stops before... they got em at the pumps, you dont needa carry em with yeh, its cheap as **** too..
My point is that DEF is not sold in many countries that people like to travel, so you do need to carry it with you or figure out how to get it along the way. Deleting a DEF system is problematic in many ways...definitely not a "tread lightly" mindset.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
You dont have to actually delete it, tuners can override the lockout countdown and various other things so if you drive far enough away the DEF dries up you can just keep driving w/out it.. otherwise if you fill the tank up it'll use it, just might not inform you when the tank has run dry, not sure on that.. it'll also let you keep going if it develops a fault you cant fix in some far flung place.

Chances are if you cant find DEF, your not finding proper fuel to burn in it, Common Rails are not like the old oil burners that would take whatever.. Not with DPF's and EGR's and all that crap to clog up.
 
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ScottPC

New member
My previous point was that if you're trying to tread lightly and not smog up the place, defeating emission systems is both illegal and not very cool. I know a lot of people do it but if you're traveling in a way that's responsible and respectful of other countries and cultures polluting their resources reflects on the whole community. And yes I agree, if you're in country where you can't buy DEF, it's quite likely the fuel wouldn't be acceptable either for that engine. So this takes me back to the point that if making a large investment in a house / habitat, get an engine that you can take just about anywhere. This logically leads to a gas engine, until electric becomes viable...hopefully in our lifetime :) Would love to see an Panamerican Highway or round the world overland expedition that required no fuel stops, all self contained. Lots of advancements in engines, batteries, solar, wind and vehicle construction are needed but it's a worthy pursuit, imo.
 

adam88

Explorer
I would never want a diesel again. The new gas engines coming out are being designed to idle 24/7 without any real damage to them. Look at the new F150 Hybrid which will come with a 7.2kw generator (powered by the engine). It will be able to run all day long and pump out 7.2kw of power and be fine. Diesels cant idle worth crap and are just a pain to work on and honestly they are heavy, way way heavier. I suspect 10 years from now (yes, 10) there will be no more diesel engines being produced anywhere in the world. Maybe 15 years. 20 absolte max.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
@ScottPC, my point was its not DEF that killed the diesel earthcruiser, perhaps all the events that lead up to DEF being mandated taken as a whole.. but DEF in itself is rather trivial in these calculations and in itself not responsible for the death of the diesel engine.. If your in a place that dont sell DEF your not illegal by not using it was the previous scenario.. you could retain legal emissions back home and then if forced to do without would not be smogging up the place anymore than the locals, likely much less since your likely in a much newer vehicle.

Gas engines are getting GPF's and tightening standards, I've got a direct injection gasser that clogs up its intake manifold PDQ if you idle it all the time.. I think pumping out 7.2kw is far from "idle", its got a load on it.. just a static load, which a diesel would do better.
 

ScottPC

New member
@dreadlocks I can see your point now regarding it wasn't DEF that killed the Fuso in North America. I agree there are several diesel related factors not just DEF that are making it more restrictive for manufacturers to operate in the US. I would still contend that driving a diesel without emission protections still smogs up the place more than a gas engine though maybe less than the local commercial vehicles running those countries that are the ones primarily using diesel. I'm not crazy about the "when in rome philosophy" when it's possible to do better. Anyway, looking forward to the first true EEV (electric expedition vehicle) capable of long expeditions without charging stations:)
 

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dreadlocks

Well-known member
Diesel Produces much less carbon (CO/CO2) than a gasoline engine, so much less you lock your self in your garage w/engine running and you'll die of boredom first.. DEF's purpose is to Scrub Nox.. or as you say 'Smog'.. I agree smog is bad, but it only sticks around for hours/days.. thats why all the smog cleared up when everyone went on lockdown PDQ.. If your venturing the country side, there is no smog health concerns, nobody is dying of bad air in that area.. in a few days that NOX is gonna be free nitrogen feeding the plants.. but on the other hand its gonna take 200 years for the carbon emitted to get out of the atmosphere.

Sometimes yeh gotta pick and choose your battles, If your overlanding chances are you are very rarely in a place with smog issues.. but you are burning far more fuel and releasing more carbon than most others so reducing that consumption by a considerable amount is still attractive... as long as your spraying DEF in any Metro's with actual smog problems, and I suspect you'll find def in those areas its not as terrible as your making it out to be.

I can see an EV for putting around town, but for hooking up my trailer and cranking out 10k miles in 2 weeks.. yeah, thats not coming anytime soon.
 

Reconnoiter

New member
Diesel Produces much less carbon (CO/CO2) than a gasoline engine, so much less you lock your self in your garage w/engine running and you'll die of boredom first.. DEF's purpose is to Scrub Nox.. or as you say 'Smog'.. I agree smog is bad, but it only sticks around for hours/days.. thats why all the smog cleared up when everyone went on lockdown PDQ.. If your venturing the country side, there is no smog health concerns, nobody is dying of bad air in that area.. in a few days that NOX is gonna be free nitrogen feeding the plants.. but on the other hand its gonna take 200 years for the carbon emitted to get out of the atmosphere.

Sometimes yeh gotta pick and choose your battles, If your overlanding chances are you are very rarely in a place with smog issues.. but you are burning far more fuel and releasing more carbon than most others so reducing that consumption by a considerable amount is still attractive... as long as your spraying DEF in any Metro's with actual smog problems, and I suspect you'll find def in those areas its not as terrible as your making it out to be.

I can see an EV for putting around town, but for hooking up my trailer and cranking out 10k miles in 2 weeks.. yeah, thats not coming anytime soon.
My other issue with the Fuso is 161hp :-( I have 245hp now, on a rig that weighs half as much, and can barely keep up in a caravan of rigs.
Agreed about EVs.
 
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