E350 Purchase

[tims5377]

I have been contemplating an upgrade from tent camping for a while and have gone full circle on many things - Van, cargo trailer conversion, regular rv/travel trailer, tear drop etc. After a whole bunch of thought and weighted selection charts (engineer life lol) I landed on a van. Then we were back to the drawing board - pop top, extend, high top, cargo/passenger... You get it...

In short the plan is to insulate and do a camper van build with basic electrical. I am going to leave it Rwd, perhaps a small lift (C880 and billsteins maybe) (I would do weldtec if I could justify it), and some meaty tires. A rear locker and re-gear is on the long term wish list.

I found this E350 down near Houston. I am seriously considering picking it up soon and believe to have done most of my due diligence, but there are a ton of folks here that know way more about vans than I ever will. So here is everything i can think of right now.

2011 E350 Cargo Extended, w/ bulkhead
Theft Salvage Title. No accidents. 2 owners.
104k CA miles, then 10k texas miles, then stolen
5.4V8 3.73 gears
Rear AC
Swing side doors
Recently had new battery installed, alternator was checked at this time
Tires don't have a ton of life left
Very little rust
fresh fluids

The dealer is asking 11.8k, I plan on going lower. I had Lemon Squad come and inspect it, should have the report in a day or two. I also need to talk with my insurance company and understand how much it will cost being a salvage title. I will be flying in from NY to pick it up if we can come to a deal - really want to do my homework.
Standard white van lol

Crappy pic of rear axle area

I would appreciate any thoughts on pricing and other things to look out for!
Cheers

 

[winmag4582001]

FWIW a salvage/rebuilt title makes a vehicle worthless unless it's an exotic collectible and even then the title puts a huge dent in value. If you buy it, it'll be yours for life.
At auction the salvage vehicle will bring almost nothing. Most dealerships won't even accept a salvage title vehicle on trade and if they do, they might give crusher value for it.
IMO: find something different. Also, the rust on the pumpkin is telling me it may have well over the miles indicated on the odometer. Switching out a gauge cluster is easy and with a salvage title, a big possibility. I can't even estimate a fair price because myself, and nobody I know, would ever buy a salvaged vehicle.
That's my .02

 

[eblau]

vehicles can have a title branded as salvage for a number of reasons, I would have a PPI done on it if that is an option the seller is willing to give you and determine whether or not to buy it based on that... salvage title may ding you on trade in or resale but it won't be unsellable like this guy is saying above... I've had two vehicles branded "salvage" and it was just something I disclosed at the time of sale and priced it accordingly... that rust on the pumpkin is not concerning nor does it give you any indication of mileage travelled... just use your best judgement based on a pre purchase inspection and pass/ negotiate if there is anything wrong with it

Another thing to add about salvage titles is they can be "wiped clean" simply by transferring them out of state... you may be or have been the owner of a vehicle once titled as salvage and never even know it!

 

[bdog1]

It may not be relevant, but banks won’t loan on that title either.


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[tims5377]

vehicles can have a title branded as salvage for a number of reasons, I would have a PPI done on it if that is an option the seller is willing to give you and determine whether or not to buy it based on that... salvage title may ding you on trade in or resale but it won't be unsellable like this guy is saying above... I've had two vehicles branded "salvage" and it was just something I disclosed at the time of sale and priced it accordingly... that rust on the pumpkin is not concerning nor does it give you any indication of mileage travelled... just use your best judgement based on a pre purchase inspection and pass/ negotiate if there is anything wrong with it

Another thing to add about salvage titles is they can be "wiped clean" simply by transferring them out of state... you may be or have been the owner of a vehicle once titled as salvage and never even know it!

Yea the total was due to it being stolen. As far as I know the van was never in an accident.
I actually got the results of the inspection back today. There are typical dings and scratches here and there but nothing too alarming. A few small chips on the windshield.
Both of the pre cat o2 sensors came up on the monitor as pending. I don't have enough experience with fords to know the causes. But the sensors themselves are cheap.
It definitely needs an alignment and tires but I had planned on putting real tires on it when I got it home anyways.

I do think that the seller is pretty high on price although I am hoping to get him down on it.

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[vintageracer]

Vehicles with a "Dirty Bird" (Previous Salvage History) on the title are typically valued at about 30%-40% LESS than an equivalent condition equivalent mileage vehicle with a Clean title when for sale depending upon the popularity of the vehicle. YES banks will loan money on a previously salvaged/rebuilt vehicle. Not as much money as a clean title vehicle however they will loan money. If your bank won't the next one will. Yes vehicles are "Rebuilt" from salvage titles everyday in the USA. Yes the title will reflect that previously salvage history on the current title now in all 50 states.

The days of switching state registrations to "Wash" the title of the Previous Salvage denotation on the title are long gone! All the states are now required by law in 2019 to be interconnected via digital methods concerning title information for out of state vehicles being registered in a new state.

Some states restrict vehicles that can be legally rebuilt depending upon the type of Salvage Title that has been issued to that vehicle.

Example:

In Tennessee you can only rebuild a vehicle with a straight "Salvage Title" and NOT a vehicle with a "Death Certificate" or "Parts Only Permit to Dismantle" (Death Certificate) Salvage title. In Kentucky right next door you CAN rebuild a vehicle with a "Death Certificate" however when the rebuild is completed this previously Death Certificate title vehicle will be issued a Kentucky "Red" Title with the previous Salvage notation on the title. A "Normal" Kentucky Blue title with previous salvage notation is issued for a vehicle rebuilt with from a "None Death Certificate" Salvage Title vehicle rebuilt in Kentucky. A Rebuilt Vehicle with a Kentucky "Red" Rebuilt Vehicle Title is NOT ACCEPTED by 17 states for vehicle registration in those states and as such would be worthless in those 17 states as it cannot be registered for legal road operation. Tennessee is one of those 17 states that will NOT accept a Kentucky "Red" rebuilt vehicle title for vehicle registration.

Yes some states NOW have laws that a vehicle over a certain amount of model years old (10 years in Tennessee) that has been "Totaled" by the insurance company no longer requires the the insurer to "Brand" the title salvage IF the vehicle is purchased back from the insurance company by the registered owner who filed the insurance claim. Buyer beware in this situation as that vehicle can/could be rebuilt with a "Clean" title. Chances are great that the wreck will show up on Carfax or Autocheck. Once again this pertains ONLY to Older Model Vehicles purchased back from the insurance company by the registered owner who filed the insurance claim on the vehicle and has NO Lien on the vehicle. That owner could therefore rebuild the vehicle OR sell to someone else to rebuild and still maintain the Clean No Salvage Designation title. Check your states Insurance Commission Laws regarding a vehicle Totaled by an insurer AND the salvage is purchased back by the vehicle owner to see if this unique situation applies in your state of residence.

Many vehicles today that have light accident damage are now "Totaled" and therefore issued Salvage Titles by insurance companies to absolve them of future liability, make the customer happy or other reasons particularly the high cost of vehicle repair. All one has to do is go to CoPart or Insurance Auto Auctions and see lot's of vehicles that will make you scratch your head as to why that vehicle was salvaged rather than repaired. Given the huge price many of these wrecked vehicles bring at auction paid by people in the parts business it can make a lot "Cents" for an insurance company to sell a late model wreck whole rather than repair the wreck and accept all the unknown or unseen damages that may be found upon disassembly/repair and the costs associated with "Subrogation" expenses on the repair bill.

A properly "Rebuilt" vehicle can give you years of driving pleasure. This can include vehicles that were "Floaters" as flood damaged vehicles are referred to as long as it was not a complete submerge and not salt water. My Mother's daily driver 2000 Honda Accord was a "Floater" at 84K miles and therefore has a "Previous Water Damage" denotation of the good Tennessee title. The car now has 188K miles. No wrecks, no paint work and NO PROBLEMS!

A Salvaged/Rebuilt vehicle is NOT for everyone however for those of us who know and understand the process a Rebuilt vehicle can provides years of good solid daily TRANSPORTATION!

Just remember that whatever vehicle you DO BUY is the vehicle you WILL SELL at some point in time. Take that into you consideration for any vehicle you purchase Salvage or Not!

 

[Raul]

I'll not pay more than $6000. That van has no unique qualities, no exceptionally low miles and has a Salvage title. Plenty of them under $10k with clean titles.

 

[vintageracer]

Current MMR Wholesale value at Manheim Auctions for a CLEAN TITLE 2011 E350 5.4 EXT Cargo Van with average 178K miles in typical 1.7 condition rating on a scale of 1-5 is $6,000. The Price ADD for the low 110K miles, the Southwest US location and white color brings the wholesale value up to $8,950 with an estimated retail value of $13,000 for an average van with a clean title same miles and same condition. A clean title exact matching van with 125K miles condition rating of 1.3 SOLD at Manheim Seattle Auction on March 6th for $8,600 plus fee's. A clean title exact matching van in Florida sold at Manheim Lakeland Auction in late February 2019 with 135K miles condition rating 2.6 for $7,500 plus fee's.

Prices on the West coast are higher than the East coast for nice cargo vans but NOT $11K high on a retail basis for a 110K mileage van with "Dirty Bird Title"!

Continue to look elsewhere for a much better deal OR negotiate a lot lower price to you on the van shown above in this discussion!

 

[eblau]

This is good info! One instance of this from personal experience was a 2001 VW Golf that I totaled in VA back around 2008ish then sold to a friend in WV. When my friend got it back on the road he said WV issued him a clean title. I was always so confused how this could happen but I'm glad to hear they have cracked down on it finally.

Vehicles with a "Dirty Bird" (Previous Salvage History) on the title are typically valued at about 30%-40% LESS than an equivalent condition vehicle without a "Dirty Bird Title" when on the market for sale depending upon the popularity of the vehicle. Yes banks will loan money on a previously salvaged/rebuilt vehicle. Not as much money as a clean title vehicle however they will loan money. If your bank won't the next one will. Yes vehicles are "Rebuilt" from salvage titles everyday in the USA. Yes the title will reflect that previously salvage history on the current title now in all 50 states.

The days of switching state registrations to "Wash" the title of the Previous Salvage denotation on the title are over. All the states are now required by law in 2019 to be interconnected via digital methods concerning title information for out of state vehicles being registered in a new state.

 

[tims5377]

I'll not pay more than $6000. That van has no unique qualities, no exceptionally low miles and has a Salvage title. Plenty of them under $10k with clean titles.

Where are you finding them? I have been searching for some time and been hard pressed to find a rust free low mileage eb. The following are all southern econoline EBs from autotrader. (Being in NY, Its unlikely to find anything similar to the OP without massive amounts of corrosion - sorta rules out craigslist locally)

Current MMR Wholesale value at Manheim Auctions for a CLEAN TITLE 2011 E350 5.4 EXT Cargo Van with 178K miles in typical 1.7 condition rating on a scale of 1-5 is $6,000. The Price ADD for the low 110K miles, the Southwest US location and white color brings the wholesale value up to $8,950 with an estimated retail value of $13,000 for an average van with a clean title same miles and same condition. A clean title exact matching van with 125K miles condition rating of 1.3 SOLD at Manheim Seattle Auction on March 6th for $8,600 plus fee's. A clean title exact matching van in Florida sold at Manheim Lakeland Auction in late February 2019 with 135K miles condition rating 2.6 for $7,500 plus fee's.

Prices on the West coast are higher than the East coast for nice cargo vans but NOT $11K high on a retail basis for a 110K mileage van with "Dirty Bird Title"!

Continue to look elsewhere for a much better deal OR negotiate a lot lower price to you on the van shown above in this discussion!

Great info. Thank you!!!

 

[Raul]

Where are you finding them?

Local Craigslist. The discussed van is from Houston, these are from a quick search. They may not be the exact thing you are looking for, but with patience and since you willing to travel, I am sure you will find better deals.
https://houston.craigslist.org/ctd/d/houston-2012-ford-e350-cargo-van/6826566417.html
https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/spring-2011-ford-e350-cargo/6835142210.html

there is even a Quigly for $14k that I wish it would have popped up when i was looking. Not sure about the legitimacy of this one.
https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/houston-ford-e350-quigly-van/6843383590.html

 

[burleyman]

"Tires don't have a ton of life left"

I prefer well used tires when looking at a used vehicle. New tires can mask some real problems.

 

[86scotty]

Tim, don't buy a van with a salvage title from a dealer.....for any price. These things are a dime a dozen. They are EVERYWHERE. Wait out one with a clean title and buy cheap from an individual. You don't need a 'pedigree' on a used Ford van. They are ubiquitous, easy to repair and parts are everywhere. Everything that can be done to one has been. All repairs are known and easy. This is why it continues to be the base vehicle for basically everyone who needs utility/recreation/durability/etc. except the pickup crowd.

Find them on:
Craigslist
Searchtempest
Autotrader (individuals, not dealers, you can choose)
Here
Sportsmobile Forum
Facebook Marketplace
Every corner
Churches
Govdeals
Ebay
Etc.
Etc.

 

[winmag4582001]

Again, FWIW......... Here in Colorado, on a used vehicle, insurance will consider a vehicle as "salvage" when the repair cost exceeds the market value of the vehicle. Being stolen does not equal "salvage" in Colorado, unless the damage to the vehicle was more than the market value. A new vehicle that gets hit with hail can have a salvage title if the damage is more than the profit margin. Again, here in Colorado, having a vehicle stolen does not tarnish its title unless there was a large amount of damage. Also in Colorado, any out of state vehicle has to go through a VIN verification process to be titled and plated. Colorado honors other state's title status. That being said, it doesn't mean a car can't be salvage in Michigan, title cleared in New York, and then a clean title be issued in Colorado. Would I buy a vehicle with a salvage title? No. If banks won't touch them, sleazy car lots don't want them, why would I pay for one.

I was in a bad accident in my 2014 Subaru Forester. Allstate paid to have it repaired. $19,650 in damage to a $21,000 vehicle. It had a clean title and Carfax only said it was in an accident. At $21,001 Allstate would consider it totaled and issue a salvage title if someone wanted to rebuild it.

Every state is different in laws and rules.

 

[86scotty]

That's interesting Winmag. I had no idea different states could do that.