Dual Battery System with CTEK D250 not charging battery over 12 volts.

Mccaf

Adventurist
Go read up on this subject on my website.

-- The D250S/SmartPass combo works well because it combines an intelligent relay with the voltage boost of a B2B.

-- Less expensive? Well, I like the Blue Sea ACR, but then you would have to spring for a solar controller. And, if your voltage really stays below 14v, some form of voltage adjustment device, about $100 for something plug and play.

Given that you already have the D250S and solar panels, your best bet might well be to simply add the SmartPass.

Some notes about voltage as a means of determining state of charge (aka SOC). There are lots of charts, like this one, that will give you a guesstimated state of charge from the battery voltage.

12-v-Battery-State-Of-Charge-website.jpg


But they are generally not very accurate because they only work with resting voltage, that is the voltage of the battery about two hours AFTER being disconnected from either a charge source or a load:

-- When connected to a charger, the voltage at the battery terminals is generally that of the charge source. (Unless the load is much greater than the charge.)

-- Disconnected from a charger, but under load, the voltage will be drawn down by the load. Lights or even a small refrigerator won't matter much, put a hair dryer or microwave on there and even a large battery bank will show an appallingly low voltage.

Sooooo, if your batteries were at 12.7v when you started, then they were "fully" charged. If they now show 13.2v, connected to the solar controller with sunlight on the panels (expect about 5A for every 100w of panel in good sun), then they have probably completed the absorb stage and are floating nicely.

If you are really concerned, and you probably should be if you have a large battery bank, call it larger than 200Ah, then you are in the market for a real battery monitor. But that too is another, long discussion. But remember, it is less important that YOU know the state of charge and more important that your electrical system know it and respond correctly.

With lead acid batteries, time is your friend and that means that you want as much solar as you can cram on there.

Final note: Charging lead acid batteries is not something that you decide to do, or start or stop. The old statement, "I need to idle the engine for a few minutes to "top off" the batteries." is a prescription for turning expensive batteries into paper weights. You want a system that puts the batteries on charge automatically, every time there is even a single ray of sun or that your engine is running. And no, you will never run your engine long enough to fully charge your batteries. A full charge requires shore power or solar. Fortunately, you already have the latter and it will make all of the difference.


Can you point me to your write up specifically? Thanks

So according to the chart above, I was at about 40% when I left the desert. Two hr drive home with the fridge running off the house battery, and it only went up to just over 12volts, iirc12.10. Is that normal? For the amount of charge from the alternator?
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Rate of charge would be in amps, or AH total accepted over a period of time.

Nothing in the text you quote uses those units.

So according to the chart above, I was at about 40% when I left the desert. Two hr drive home with the fridge running off the house battery, and it only went up to just over 12volts, iirc12.10. Is that normal? For the amount of charge from the alternator?
Do you know how many amps your fridge uses? While driving it shoyld be wired to the alt circuit rather than robbing from the limited amps CTEK is delivering to charge House.

Do you know how many amps your alt produces in those temperature conditions?

The CTEK can't create any energy, it just converts volts, reducing amps.
 

Mccaf

Adventurist
Rate of charge would be in amps, or AH total accepted over a period of time.

Nothing in the text you quote uses those units.


Do you know how many amps your fridge uses? While driving it shoyld be wired to the alt circuit rather than robbing from the limited amps CTEK is delivering to charge House.

Do you know how many amps your alt produces in those temperature conditions?

The CTEK can't create any energy, it just converts volts, reducing amps.

FRIDGE: ~2.3 <if> compressor is on 100% of time
Dont no on the amp alternator usage...checking
The ALT circuit via the DS250 via the 7pin connector from trailer to the JEEP. The DS250 has B2B capability. So the minimal amount that the house battery was charged was all from the
ALT > 7-pin harness > DS250 > house battery

To put the fridge directly on the ALT circuit of the jeep I would have to move the fridge from the trailer
to the Jeep and plug in to the ARB version of a 12v CLA. Cant do that. Too heavy to move when full.

After some research Im getting the idea that charging the house batt while driving is not that great of input, combined with a load on the batt at the same time. I was underwhelmed with the amount of charge I received after two hours of backcounty-less than-60MPH roads and stops,turns etc. Not a steady output from the jeep ALT. I expected more charge.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
After some research Im getting the idea that charging the house batt while driving is not that great of input, combined with a load on the batt at the same time.

That's usually true even without the paltry couple of amps load of the fridge.


I was underwhelmed with the amount of charge I received after two hours of backcounty-less than-60MPH roads and stops,turns etc. Not a steady output from the jeep ALT. I expected more charge.

"Aye, there's the rub" - expectation out of sync with reality.

Ultimately, the battery's resistance will dictate the amount of amperage that flows through it at any given supply voltage. You can increase the voltage potential of the supply with a B2B and decrease the resistance of the supply circuit by upsizing the supply wire - but once a lead-acid battery builds up a surface charge, you'll hit the point at which the battery's resistance becomes the limit.

After that, all you can do is wait however many hours is required for the electrolyte to absorb enough electrons to be saturated. And as the battery state of charge rises, so does the resistance, which slows down the rate of absorption.


It would be even worse if you didn't have the B2B bumping up the supply voltage just before the battery.

I dunno how much the SmartPass would help in your situation. Sure, it can allow more amps to flow (up to 80), but I'm pretty sure it's bypassing the 250s B2B to do that. So you lose the voltage bump.

At that point you're going to get an extra limitation due to the size of the wire that feeds the 7-pin. I think most of those are #10 wire.

In other words, you're back to charging the trailer battery directly off the jeep's voltage-regulated alternator through a long run of #10 wire.

That, combined with the battery resistance, might end up not flowing any more amps through the battery than the 250s by itself.

But even if it did flow a few more amps in the beginning, it'll only last until the battery builds up a surface charge and the battery resistance sets the limit.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
2.3A is super low.

Yes a heavy gauge wire is needed, as well as Anderson connectors rather than puny 7-pin.

And a depleted batt takes 5+ hours to get back to Full at Absorb volts, 4+ hours of that at lowered amps. Increasing amps will only help a bit, maybe 30 minutes.

When batt is depleted, with engine at high rpm, measure volts and amps at the six points in the path from alt to target batt posts, see where the drops occur.
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
CTEK replaced my D250s free of charge. I exhausted all other resources. The unit was faulty! Hopefully, 3 years of struggling is over!


Congratulations! I thought they had a 2 year warranty so going to 3 years is great customer service. Did they give you the black SA model? It has a pigtail wire pair and if you ground the black one it raises the max charging voltage to 14.8 volts for AGMs
 

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