Driving in Sand

FrenchieXJ

Expedition Leader
#2
Hi Gait,

Your correct! I watched the video and their was no mention of lowering the pressure. I have over 45 years of driving experience much of it in sand. I am a I4WDTA certified instructor/educator. If you have any questions on sand driving I will be happy to answer them. I would prefur to do it by personal email. The two reasions is the form has limits on the size of the post and I get long-winded. Second is over the years there are people who think that they know it all and want to argue with everything that is said. That is their provocative to do that. I just do not like to waist my time with these type of people. I will start a conservation (PM) with you with my personal email.

Da Frenchman
 
#3
I experimented significantly with pressures in Fido on a recent 10k mile trip. Running 37x12.5 17" tires. In VERY soft sand at highway pressure (50psi) the truck was having difficulty progressing-ie the engine will bog but the truck still moves ok in 2nd gear low range. Lower the pressures to 20 and you are suddenly invincible the difference is really profound. The truck could easily be driven in high range 2nd or 3rd gear at the low pressure.

My 2 cents.

Allan
 

DetroitDarin

Itching. And Scratching
#4
Uh....yeah. I'd suppose tire pressure is of paramount importance to sand driving. Probably 85% tire pressure, 15% momentum and another 10% driving skill. :)

As an example - sand dune driving on 315/70/17 Dura's, I went down to 19psi and couldn't make it up a huge dune. I went down to 16 and the truck went right up. :) Don't lose a bead, but air down a lot.

 
#5
Hi Gait,

Your correct! I watched the video and their was no mention of lowering the pressure. I have over 45 years of driving experience much of it in sand. I am a I4WDTA certified instructor/educator. If you have any questions on sand driving I will be happy to answer them. I would prefur to do it by personal email. The two reasions is the form has limits on the size of the post and I get long-winded. Second is over the years there are people who think that they know it all and want to argue with everything that is said. That is their provocative to do that. I just do not like to waist my time with these type of people. I will start a conservation (PM) with you with my personal email.

Da Frenchman
and sometimes that is their only reason!

but many of us would benefit by your knowledge & experience. please reconsider and not make many pay for the few.

thanks
 
#6
Uh....yeah. I'd suppose tire pressure is of paramount importance to sand driving. Probably 85% tire pressure, 15% momentum and another 10% driving skill. :)

As an example - sand dune driving on 315/70/17 Dura's, I went down to 19psi and couldn't make it up a huge dune. I went down to 16 and the truck went right up. :) Don't lose a bead, but air down a lot.


nice water crossing!

how would the guideline be set to avoid "too low"; what I assume you mean by "lose a bead"?

and, although unrelated, does what I believe to be a HAM antenna, cause a peripheral distraction driving on-road, or do you get "used-of-it"?

thanks
 

DetroitDarin

Itching. And Scratching
#7
For the tires - I can't come up with a universal too-low figure. That's depending on tire make, wheel design maybe too?

What kind of tires/wheels are we talking? On those duratracs I think 15psi is okay. Softer side-wall tires might need more pressure.

That was merely a Flag on a whip-pole-thing. Wasn't an antenna. I didn't mind it the days I was at the dunes. :)
 

FrenchieXJ

Expedition Leader
#8
s.e.charles
and sometimes that is their only reason!

but many of us would benefit by your knowledge & experience. please reconsider and not make many pay for the few.

how would the guideline be set to avoid "too low"; what I assume you mean by "lose a bead"?
I will give it another try.

First I will be leaving for the in-laws place in California in a couple of days. I will not be bringing the computer and I do not have a “Smart Phone”. I will then be going from their place to Baja for 3 to 4 weeks. I will not have a computer. It is kind of nice without it.

For these reasons, I will not be able to keep posting for a extended period of time. What questions I get will need to wait until after I return.

QUOTE] how would the guideline be set to avoid "too low"; what I assume you mean by "lose a bead"? This is a very open question with many variables, all of which will change the answer. [/QUOTE]

The factors which contribute to the answer! #1 The weight of the vehicle. #2 The width of a rim (note most all new rims have a safety bead in them) from 5,5 “ to 12" covers the most popular widths. I know there are some special rims even wider. #3 The size of the tire (tyre) overall diameter and width. #4 The ply rating of a tire is a large influence on the pressure. #5 What is the profile, tread style, street, all terrine or mud/snow, a sharp cut tread to sidewall or rounded. #6 The gear ratio of the vehicle to get up to float speed and stay there (more on that later).

So as you can see they have many factors the make up the answer. So if a person has the exact same vehicle, same tires and experimented with the matching criteria. They could give you a suggestion only as a starting place.

There is sand and then there is other types of sand. They all range from wet beach sand (generally very hard packed) to same sized grains of sand (power dry in wind blown dunes) and everything in between. With each the 10 most popular types of sand you will have different pressures for all of them, with the same vehicle.

While in the large dunes with windward (more compacted) side of the hills to the leeward (soft slip face (with a 31 degree slope)) On my vehicles I have run from 5 PSI cold to 16 PSI cold. These have been generally all Jeeps (CJ-2, CJ-5, CJ-7, XJ, JK, and JKU) and Toyotas. In my business, depending on the different client vehicles includes pretty much every civilian 4X4 made and many different military vehicles.

The process is you will have to experiment with your vehicle and see what works best for the factors listed above.

My recommendation is to start with your tires full and drop them until the rim is 3/4 of the height of the normal street pressure.
#1 Drive around starting and stopping. If you can get moving without going deeper into the sand then your at the correct pressure. This is for flat sand.
#2 If you sink into the sand and only move a couple of inches then you need to go lower. You may need to do this until again until you can start on the flat (level sand)
#3 When you are in the dunes you need to park with the front down hill (if that is the way you are going).
#4 Use the least amount of throttle to get your vehicle moving. Tires spinning are like the paddle wheels on a river boat, they throw out the sand from the back and digging holes. Do not worry you will not reach China. You will only go down to where the tires have no weight on them and your sitting on the frame, undercarriage and body.
#5 Do not lock up your wheels coming to a stop. You will make a hill for your tires to climb when trying to start moving.

I will continue more later and cover “Float Speed” and more.

Note; This is the web and any information you get from it is worth what you pay for it. This in not a hands on class where you can see exactly what is being described here and interpreted in your way that may not be the way it was intended to be interpreted.
Use this at your own risk. If you do not know what your doing I suggest that you get a I4WDTA certified trainer/educator/teacher to get the proper hands on training. I4WDTA people are now on 5 continents.

You can see a thread which covers some information close the this posted by myself.
https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/tires-and-hot-air.198625/
 
Last edited:
#9
whew! one concern I can cross off my list.

[Frenchie] "Do not worry you will not reach China."

thank you for the very complete answer. have a good trip - questions will be waiting upon your return.
 

68camaro

Active member
#11
Use this at your own risk. If you do not know what your doing I suggest that you get a I4WDTA certified trainer/educator/teacher to get the proper hands on training. I4WDTA people are now on 5 continents.
This is under appreciated idea. I took a one-on-one 2 day class using my Jeep WK2 with one of these certified instructors. I was always concernned about pushing my Grand Cherokee too far since I travel alone off beaten-path. In the class we spend several class hours going over Jeeps 4x4 systems, how they work why and when to use them. In the field I learned that the Jeep was way more capable than me or I understood and we tested it extensively and thoroughly in all types of situations. I also have understanding of Jeeps limitations and weak points.

I am much more comfortable and confident off-road with understanding what I can, cannot and probably should not do. Along with driving instruction my class included recovery technigues with hands-on experience and tire repairs in field.
 

FrenchieXJ

Expedition Leader
#15
The I4WDTA is certifying and training of educators is on going. I am a Emeritus member and one of the four founders of the I4WDTA . I was given the "Emeritus member in Honor" status when medical reasons forced me into retirement. I am proud of our association for the growth and education they are providing to improve the safety, skills and respect to the off-highway community.

Where are 3 common ways that you to go to learn how to drive your off-highway vehicle. Short and sweet!
#1 "The school of hard knocks"! This can be the way to a lot of repair expenses, possible hospital or mortuary.
#2 The "Hey watch (this or me)"! You may learn this way but it is a hit or miss. What you learn may be wrong or even dangerous. Then it is harder to learn it correctly later.
#3 The Certified Educator way! These are people with proven skills. They are tested to the highest standards. They are also tested to make sure that they also know how to present and teach others.

There are others out in the world who may not be tested and then you get a hit and miss with your education. If they have the skill then why would they not do the process of getting certified that they know the material they are presenting. Note: that there are people who do not meet the standards I4WDTA..

Note; Just so you know I have "No dog in the race", since my retirement.

Now back to packing.

Da Frenchman
 
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