Do-it-all WK diesel questions...

[billy bee]

Hi guys,

I am considering selling my 1996 Chevy K1500 that I use to camp and tow and is confgured as our dog car. It does all those things well but sucks the gas. To compensate for the poor gas mileage I also own/drive a 2002 Jetta TDI. So, my family average fuel economy (FAFE) is somewhere around 40 mpg. Truth is, however, I am tired of folding my 36" legs into the Jetta. Its cramped. It's reliable, runs great, but has 215k on it; this car will roll another 100k with few problems. Same with the Chevy. It has only 120k on it. It's dead reliable. Honestly, I'd drive the Chevy full time if not for the crappy gas mileage.

So, here's what I'm thinking: sell the Chevy and the Jetta and buy a 07 or 08 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Mercedes CRD engine. Thinking it will be more comfortable to drive on a daily basis and still be able to handle the task of towing the 20' ski boat from the California central coast to the Sacremento River Delta for ski vacations. The dogs will fit in the back, no problem. The sacrifice is in the camping. The Chevy has a FlipPac on it which is great for camping. Also, I will reduce my FAFE by more than 10 mpg, and I drive about 500 miles per week. 400 in the Jetta at 48 mpg and another 100 in the truck at 13.

So, I am interested in hearing about your WK diesel ownership experience as relates to commuting, cost of ownership, reliability, dog friendliness, towing 4000 pounds, camping (I would most likely buy a RTT), and off-roading (in stock configuration). I am particularly interested in the real-world fuel economy with the Mercedes diesel. I drive very economically.

I know this is a little convoluted, but I am getting tired of driving the Jetta and maintaining two vehicles. Any thoughts are welcome, including options for an all-purpose vehicle other than a WK with the capabilities I am seeking.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays!!!

Bill

 

[Jason911]

Had a late build '08 that I drove for 150K before upgrading to a '14 CRD. In some ways I miss the motor - ran like a top. Downside is that the tranny really needed another gear for interstate use: @ 70mph the tach was well over 2100rpm, which really negated the positive fuel aspects of the engine. Realistically you could see 24+ interstate, 22+ in town.

Beyond that, the only two real problems that are known issues are the crank position sensor(minor) and the swirl motor(major). The CPS can be easily replaced, and a semi very common failure. The swirl motor, when it fails can be a VERY expensive fix, or it can be a really cheap fix depending on your route. Expensive: $4500 and change/pulling the motor. Cheap: $1.89 resistor from Radioshack to trick the computer. Green Diesel Engineering has a tune that will also solve the swirl motor problem, and it really wakes up the engine, and increases fuel economy. Towing - the Jeep was rated for something like 7000lbs(memory is a little foggy), all the tranny needs regular fluid flush, should go for 250K miles easily. Engine oil filters can be had from Mann of Germany - about $8/bulk purchase. Engine oil is specific, MUST have MB spec 229.51/"MB-Approval 229.51" (Low SPAsh multigrade service engine oil), but pretty easy to find - mostly any of the Euro 5W30 oils are good.

As for the Jeep - the limited models with quadra drive come from the factory with locking rear AND front diffs. There was a factory designed recall(N23) that actually failed the transfer case/final drive controller, but has since been updated(transfer case would not shift into 4Low). On the 4x4 side of things, the front differential carrier bushing have a tendency to dry rot out after about 125k miles, requires pulling to replace bushings. Bilstein makes a really nice set of shocks that are designed factory fit for a replacement option stock or lifted. OME and Superlift make lift options, as do some others of budget lifts; Daystar and ProComp.

The '07 v/s the '08: The later build got a refreshed exterior nose, and very mild interior update. Also got the better in dash navigation(although dated by todays standards). Sunroof drain holes were known to plug and cause leaks, but easy fix.

Great websites to reference for more info:

http://www.wkjeeps.com/kmenu.htm

http://www.greendieselengineering.c...herokee&name=Grand+Cherokee+Eco+tune&model=++

In reference to interior space - it is a little lacking. Front seats are great (I'm 6'7") but back could be a little tight for long distances with adult - kids should be fine, we have a 3 year old. Interior volume is good with seats folded down, or even split, but a little restricted otherwise. Spare is carried underneath so it doesn't rob interior space, but you too need to access underneath the rear floor to lower the spare.

There is a internet-friend that has a fully built/bullet-proofed/lifted 2010 S-Limited Hemi if you want to see/read something impressive:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/10-s-limited-build-1171070/

 

[billy bee]

That's great info, Jason. Thanks. Seeing that you are in the rust belt, how do WKs hold up there? I was looking at one in Denver and the owner mentioned rust, which shocked me. What's your experience?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[Jason911]

Personally - I never saw any on mine on the exterior. When I acquired it I searched it out, and drove up to the U.P. of Michigan to get it. Here in WI they put salt on the roads like its a condiment, and just recently the DOT has been adding wetting agents. Of real concern as far as rust would be the door edges closest to the ground, and the body edges. Fender wells have decent liners and should not be of a concern. Edge of the windshield where the glass meets the metal as well. I'd be looking for a late build '08 if you can. DaimlerChrysler actually built a very small number '09 model year Jeep CRDs, but as they couldn't meet Federal Emission for 2009 and later, sold them as 2008 or 2008.5 model year. Late build would be June/July/August. I don't know how many were actually built, but I've heard it was like only 220 or so. I've only come across one, and it was in Canada.

That's another option to consider - getting one from Canada. Up north they had a few better option packages, such as the S-Limited or the North Edition, with slightly different/better interiors.

 

[SSF556]

WK CRD is a great platform....see my build thread. It is cramped on interior space, but the diesel makes up for that...fully loaded it is a great driving experience...

Even though Jeep says it can tow over 7000lbs the short wb will be an issue for heavy trailers. If I was going to be towing a lot of weight all the time I would personally look at a 1/2 ton truck...maybe the Dodge Ram with the 3.0l diesel.

Prices for the 2007/08 CRDs range all over the place. I would try to find somethig outside the rust belt because like all vehicles these will rust.

Fully loaded for me is between 5900 and 6200 pounds and either way running about 72mph @ 2480 rpms I get between 22-24 mpgs...depending on weather. What is great about the diesel is it shrugs off the added weight and still produces great mpg and range. Unfortunately Jeep really got the transmission and rear axle ratio messed up...running 75mph over 2500rpms sucks If only the transmission had a 6th gear it would have been a perfect combination..or a slightly lower numerical rear axle ratio....but hey sacrifices must be made from the factory.

GDE tune is a must and additional modifications can be made to the exhaust if you see fit...

I just installed an ARB rear locker...I have the QT2 system which is a brake based 4x4 system with a true 4LO...with the rear locker I am 100% confident this vehicle will now go everywhere I want to take it...there is also a QD2 system from Jeep that has ELSD front and rear...they are computer controlled and one of the best OEM 4x4 systems out there....one quick way to tell what system is on the vehicle is to do a quick bolt count on the rear diff cover...

10 bolts = QT2
12 bolts = QD2

At a minimum get QT2 and you can add a rear locker like I did....this is one of the best overland vehicles for the North America market...if you are planning an around the world trip there are of course better platforms but realistically most of us will be spending our time cruising highways and gravel roads in the states...

 

[Jason911]

Echoing what SSF says, and adding a bit more to my first post - the WK has factory 3.73 gears, which would be great if the thing had a 6th gear in the trans. Merecede reserved the 6th gear for their ML series, which ironically enough shares its underpinnings with the second generation WK2(what I currently drive). By all means look for one that has the chrome pull-up lever to engage the low-range in the transfer case - because Jeep sold the base Laredo model as a 4x4, but without the two-speed transfer case. Capable enough for gravel travel, but lacking otherwise.

 

[wanabxtrm]

We had one and sold it due to interior space. Echo what everyone else said. Great motor, towed 6k load like it wasn't there, needs a 6th gear. No other complaints, if we stayed at 2 kids I would have kept it. But it was still cramped at 2 with the dog in the back.

 

[billy bee]

Hi guys,

Thanks to each of your for adding something to the conversation. I have been engrossed in learning about these rigs and am only concerned about the interior space. I just need to find one locally to test fit. There are lots of them out there. Should not be too difficult to do.

Our ski boat is 4,000 lbs and has a long wheel base. Very easy to tow. the trailer currently does not have brakes on it. I will install a surge system on it before I tow it again. It is not safe as it is. (Can't believe, really, that it was built without brakes...).

The rest of the boxes seem to check off reasonably well. Now the search begins in earnest...

bb

 

[jeep-N-montero]

The interior space would be the same for a gas model as well, so if you just need to check the space any WK would be fine. I have been considering a CRD WK the last 6 months or so to replace our Chevy diesel truck and the Montero, but giving up the space and versatility of both is hard to swallow when they are paid for.

 

[billy bee]

The interior space would be the same for a gas model as well, so if you just need to check the space any WK would be fine.

YEs, I am looking around on the used car lots for one. Lots of GC's but not lots of WKs. Love to drive a diesel before flying to PHX/DEN/SEA/wherever to buy one, but that may not be in the cards...

Interestingly, J-n-M, I would consider an OBS Chevy, extra-cab, short-bed diesel as an only vehicle. Swap my FlipPac onto it and sell my Chevy and Jetta. Not sure my wife would go for that, however, as truck is not the greatest vehicle to have as an only vehicle. She is good with a Jeep.

bb

 

[SSF556]

I know we bash the interior of the WK...but a good comparison for the WK is the latest 4Runner for dimensions...I will say that the 4Runner does win in the payload capacity and cargo volume though...but the WK does match it on interior user space...

Overall Length
WK = 186"
4R Trail = 191"

Overall Body Width
WK = 73.3"
4R Trail = 75.8"

Track Fr/Rear
WK = 62"/62"
4R Trail = 63"/63"

Head Room Fr/Rear (Moonroof may be less)
WK = 39.7"/39.3"
4R Trail = 39.3"/38.6"

Leg Room Fr/Rear
WK = 41.7"/35.5"
4R Trail = 41.7"/32.9

Hip Room Fr/Rear
WK = 57.6"/60.6
4R Trail = 56.5"/55.7"

Cargo Volume Seats Up/Down...this is where the 4Runner wins for us guys carrying stuff....
WK = 35.0/67.4
4R Trail = 46.3/88

Towing
WK = 7700lbs
4R Trail = 5000lbs

Payload Capacity Another win for the 4R Trail
WK = 1050lbs
4R Trail = 1550lbs


http://www.toyota.com/4runner/features/weights_capacities/8642/8670/8648/8674

http://www.wkjeeps.com/wk_specs.htm

 

[dbandel]

You need to calculate total family cost of ownership (TFCO?). You may save gas as the expense of payments and lost utility, then also factor in what do you really want to drive? Vehicles are as much an emotional choice as financial. Me? I decided that at $2.15/gallon currently for diesel, I'll probably just keep driving my Dodge Cummins mega-cab 4x4 as my daily driver. I also have two other TDI's in the family for my wife and oldest son.

 

[billy bee]

I know we bash the interior of the WK...but a good comparison for the WK is the latest 4Runner for dimensions...I will say that the 4Runner does win in the payload capacity and cargo volume though...but the WK does match it on interior user space...

That's an excellent comparison between the Runner and the GC. I had thought about the 4Runner. It just lacks character (and a diesel option...). I ride a Buell Ulysses motorcycle. A Suzuki VStrom is far more reliable but has no soul, if a machine can be described as having soul. Same with the 4Runner. Capable in every imaginable and measurable respect, but it is somehow lacking in the unmeasurables. Jeeps have that intangible quality that makes it more meaningful to drive, although not quite like they once did...

Which bring me to dbandel's point. I'd much rather drive a Jeep than a Toyota. In may respects, although I have a number of boxes I want to check, I am still making an emotional decision. My heart wants a Jeep. I've always loved them. Always will.

Really appreciate everybody's thinking here. This is exactly what I needed.

bb

 

[billy bee]

Hey, I thought I'd throw a wrench into the works: another vehicle I was considering is the Honda Ridgeline. I think that it is completely soul-less but might have enough versatility or quirky-ness to make it an interesting option. Throw wheeling out the window, of course. But off-road-ability is last on my list of must-haves.

bb

PS: I know this post may confirm what you've been thinking all along -- 'This guy is a flake.'

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Hey, I thought I'd throw a wrench into the works: another vehicle I was considering is the Honda Ridgeline. I think that it is completely soul-less but might have enough versatility or quirky-ness to make it an interesting option. Throw wheeling out the window, of course. But off-road-ability is last on my list of must-haves.

bb

PS: I know this post may confirm what you've been thinking all along -- 'This guy is a flake.'

A Ridgeline, really, are you trying to give away your mancard? Please stick with the CRD WK.