Do I really need 4x4 on my van?

[UHAULER]

I'm conflicted.

The thing is that I've got the Cruiser for serious stuff. It's just the van is so nice to camp in. Then again, I could spend a lot less money getting a roof top tent and a fridge for the Cruiser, couldn't I?

You know you want a 4WD van.:wings: Besides, do you really want to fold up a soggy mess should there be some rain showers during the night/morning, not to mention climbing down a 7' ladder in the middle of the night to use the potty.

I would look into the UJOINT conversion and someone to help with the installation if necessary.

 

[EMrider]

No, you probably don't 'need' 4wd. Pure guess, but a 2wd setup with a locking diff would cover my needs fine 95+% of the time. In 4 years and 50k miles of family travels and general backcountry exploring, I've only really needed 4wd on 4-5 occasions. I'm certain, however, that 1-3 times not having 4wd (and lockers) would have left me very stuck in the middle of nowhere. That would have been a huge and expensive mess.

Also, having the capability even without the need gives me some peace of mind when I'm checking out unfamiliar places. Indeed, without 4wd I probably would not have allowed myself to get into those situations where I did get stuck.

If starting from scratch again, I'd get the 4x4 setup. But I'm fully aware that reason and economics alone would not favor the 4wd option.

 

[shawn_nj]

Had the same debate for about 6months. Finally broke down and went for it. Since having the van I have done a bunch of unscientific 2wd (with LSD) tests to see how far I would make it before getting stuck. For mild dirt roads it does just fine in 2wd. I have gotten it "stuck" in pretty deep mud twice and had to put it in 4x4 to get out. Mind you I was kind of trying to get it stuck. I also do alot of beach driving and the van does not stand a chance on the deep sand beaches in 2wd. I bought the van for the purpose of beach driving my jetskis across the sand, so 4x4 was worth its weight in gold. In order to determine if its "worth" it to you...to spend the money on 4x4, you really have to look at where you intend to take the van. And ask yourself do you NEED the van to be able to drive in snow. If you do, then there is your answer.

All in my opinion of course.

 

[CSG]

You know you want a 4WD van.:wings: Besides, do you really want to fold up a soggy mess should there be some rain showers during the night/morning, not to mention climbing down a 7' ladder in the middle of the night to use the potty.

I would look into the UJOINT conversion and someone to help with the installation if necessary.

Well, I'd get a Maggiolina or Columbus if I went the RTT route. No worse than closing the pop top on the van. The ladder is an issue, however.

I don't know what a UJOINT conversion is.

 

[bucketosudz]

Ujoint posted in your thread, he makes conversion kits for Vans, check his company out at: http://www.ujointoffroad.com/

 

[Adventurerider]

UJoint, Chris Makes great kits, bump for that!!!!

 

[T.Low]

I actually prize my low range transfer case that comes along with the 4wheel drive more than the added traction. I find myself doing a lot of long steep climbs on loose sketchy terrain in the mountains and i like to put it in low range and utilize all the mechanical advantages of low gearing. I really do not want to bounce the van if i can avoid it.

The added traction is nice, too. I've utilized it more than I originally even thought i would. We do indeed come across mud boggs, mudddy hillclimbs, sandy beaches, snowy stretches, etc.


But I don't have another 4x4 overland vehicle, the van is it.

See for yourself why and when I use 4wheel drive. Maybe this will help your thought process.


Snow runs, of course.

In this picture below, i was actually last in line waiting as slightly bigger rigs were stuck in the snow. From a point that is out of the picture frame ( you can't see the actualy beginning of the snow on the road) I went over the berm on the right hand side of the road (left side of picture frame ) then thru the mud bog, up and over the berm again back onto the road, then reversed up to the front of the line while they continred to get Jeeps unstuck from the snow. Everybody stopped what they were doing and couldn't believe it when I cleared the entire mud run. i was a little worried as it slowed and then continued at a mud slingin crawl until I cleared it.

In Owhyee, the rain turned the roads into instant Gumbo mud. 4 wheel drive was absolutely imperative.

I would never have attempted this campsite without 4 wheel drive for the sand and uneven terrain.

In Eastern Washington I saw a Tacoma stuttering a bit at about the same point my van is in this picture...before my attempt. it was enough to make me a little nervous. The back end of the Taco was stuttering up and down, signs of losing traction...but he made it thru. The van made it quite smoothly actually.
I don't think I would have tried it without Railvan and his 16,000lb winch behind me.

I would not have taken the route we took to get to the Three Corners marker of Idaho, Wyoming, and Oregon without 4wheel drive. Hills and slick mud and a few water crossings. I would not have wanted to stress out the others in the group.

A locker may not be enough in this case with one tire off the ground and the other rear tire on a slick rock or in the mud. The pull from the front is a welcome addition.

I would not have driven the beach from Westport to Tokeland without 4wheel drive.

I suppose one could do this in a 2 wheel drive, but i would not have scouted out river camping on the way home from a California sea kayaking trip like this without 4wheel drive.

After all day of driving FS roads in Washington's Cascade Mountains, I would not have wanted to try these mud crossings and snow crossings in 2 wheel drive. ( I shot these of Railvan as he followed me thru them)

http://www.youtube.com/user/TCLowell#p/a/u/2/W2wrIUJOGCU

http://www.youtube.com/user/TCLowell#p/a/u/0/sgMy4JnG_oY

http://www.youtube.com/user/railvan06

http://www.youtube.com/user/railvan06#p/u/3/uRAzp_7rBlI

http://www.youtube.com/user/railvan06#p/a/u/2/jDgiYzuNX_w



But that's just me and the places I want to be in my van.

It was never a question while I was building my van. I knew I needed to find an AWD, then swap the T case, install taller AT and/or MTs, and change the gearing and add a locker. Personally, I'm really glad I spent the time, effort, and money.

How much do your circumstances look like mine?

 

[CSG]

Great stuff, T. Low, but my circumstances are not at all like yours based on those photos. I'm a fair weather guy as much as possible and avoid the messy roads/trails, etc. that apparently attract you. So I wouldn't do intentional water crossings, beach driving, mud slogs, snow runs, or crawling on the rocks along a river.

When it comes down to it, I guess don't really *need* 4x4 for my typical mode of travel, I just like knowing it's there just in case.

As I think I've said in this thread, I've never been in a situation where I had to take my Cruiser out of 4 hi or use its CDL but then it's fulltime 4x4 so I've also never really known when it would have been needed over 4x2.

 

[mhiscox]

When it comes down to it, I guess don't really *need* 4x4 for my typical mode of travel, I just like knowing it's there just in case.

You earlier raised several good points, including the availability of chains and the fact that an alternative 4wd truck is available. These "workarounds" would seem lame for some hard core folk, but they shouldn't be underestimated for less rugged use.

My Sprinter van is 2wd. I would have liked 4wd, but it wasn't practically available. Five years later, though, I'm not sure I didn't luck out. Like most people, I tend to be out mostly when the weather is good, and my camping is mostly off of NFS and BLM roads. "Roads" is a key concept because, as opposed to "trails", the roads are overwhelmingly passable to 2wd vehicles. And in my experience, when weather-related problems are not an issue, there's no shortage of places to go in a 2wd van. And all the while, and especially on the pavement that almost always is the bulk of the miles, the van is handling better and getting much better fuel economy than would its 4wd equivalent.

It's all a compromise, but for the traveling I do, adding a winch, recovery tools, traction panels, all-terrain tires and a locator beacon has proven both more economical and more functional than had I succeeded in getting 4wd.

 

[CSG]

Great looking rig, Mike. Thanks for the comments.

 

[Herbie]

I've had two 4x4 shops tell me that a limited slip on 2x4 is mostly a waste of money and it can cause as many problems as it solves. As far as a heavy bumper, what good does that do me? I've got a hitch receiver on the back that could take a hitch mounted winch and I could put a front mounted receiver hitch on for a lot less weight and money. As far as a lift, what will that get me regarding traction? I wouldn't put bigger tires on it than are on there now so I'm not sure what I gain. The rear differential isn't going to get any higher although a few other low points might gain a bit of height. I've got just under 8" now.

Just to address a couple of your (perhaps rhetorical) questions:

Remember there's a difference between a limited slip and a selectable locker. Limited slips can cause a lot of problems when not needed, but a selectable locker acts just like an open diff until you activate it, and you only activate it when you need it. This is important because you have to remember that 2WD can often really mean ONE wheel drive if one of the wheels is in the slippery stuff. Moreover, if its the WRONG wheel in the slippery stuff, (depending on the vehicle), the slipping wheel may be the only one getting power, which means NO wheel drive.

Heavy bumpers don't buy you anything, but heavy sometimes comes with "sturdy" and lots of people like to be able to use their bumper for self or assisted recovery. There is a measurable de-rate for using a winch or shackle when attached to a hitch receiver versus when attached to a hard bumper, but many people prefer to play with less margin.

As you say with lift, you might raise some of the low points. I did a lot of forest service and other dirt-type roads in my Subaru and the one way that I frequently got into trouble with low ground clearance was when the roads got rutted. When the road was flat, then 8" was plenty of clearance, but when the wheel ruts were 6" deep, then it didn't take much of an obstruction before I was hanging up or dragging on the skid plate under the tranny. Rutted roads are a fact of life just about anywhere, and I had just as much trouble on desert wash roads as I did on muddy mountain roads. The more overhang or the longer the wheelbase, the more even a slight incline can change your interference also.

If I need lockers then I screwed up as I'm not interested in trails or situations that require them.

See above re: One wheel drive. Lockers add margin, just like everything else.

The reality is that hearty people have overlanded just about every possible type of vehicle. I'll agree with you and others that 4WD may be an expense you don't need, but I certainly would consider a selectable locking diff and a significant investment towards self-recovery gear.

 

[Hayduke950]

Just take a spare vehicle. :lol

 

[RocKrawler]

I see T.Low was captain of the debate team! What great examples of having the added flexibility 4wd affords!

Its funny how people seem to thing you are going to be rock crawling to need 4wd - there are plenty of situations where it can be useful. Personally, I don't want restrictions, and I look at it as insurance. Personally I don't mind the investment if it provides peace of mind and a margin of safety for my family. I can go camping and exploring without a SPOT, CB, HAM, recovery gear, winch, etc... would it be responsible of me to do so with kids involved without taking these precautions? To me personally no. If I were to only hit campgrounds off paved roads or maintained dirt roads, then I'd be totally comfortable with it. But there are forums for that group, and many of us here aren't there because we want to go away from those crowded spots. That's why we are her in ExPo, and not rvforum.net or any of the hundred other forums that cater to the beaten path. We have done our homework and after weighing all of our travel goals, the 4x4 Van is our ideal setup. Since the SMB is out of the budget, building it ourselves with the help and suggestions of people on these forums are key to getting it right, hopefully the first time.

 

[CSG]

Thanks Herbie, good explanation.

I really should forget the whole idea and just buy a fridge for the Cruiser...

 

[zuren]

I've got an absolutely terrific Pleasureway Traverse camping van. The one thing is it's not 4x4. It would cost me nearly $10k to convert it and I still wouldn't use it on more than rutted two-track roads. I think of 4x4 as a safety margin for poor weather (like snow) but then there are chains which are a lot cheaper anyway.

A local shop suggested I just get some self recovery equipment, maybe do a small lift and get AT tires vs. the Michelin LTX M&S tires I run now.

I've got a Lexus Land Cruiser I can use for travels but the van is so well outfitted and comfy by comparison. I'm just really torn as to whether I really need to make the van a 4x4 or leave it alone and just limit my roads to those where 2x4 is fine.

Opinions?

I'm glad you asked this question as I've been very interested in the answers. I would like to buy a vehicle suitable for weekend or longer adventuring but I haven't figured out what my answer is yet. I thought one of my criteria was 4x4 but after a bit more thought of what I plan to do, I'm beginning to question myself and the need for a feature I may rarely need, involves more moving parts and negatively affects fuel economy. I think I'm being convinced that I don't need it!