Dimensions of the JK 3.8 V6?

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
Isuzu 4BD is shorter? Arguably a better engine for this application.

It's on the short list for sure. Reading of people putting them into LC 60's, they are only seeing ~20mpg, which I don't think justifies the swap for my needs.
I also think 3.9L is simply overkill for the JK. (my opinion, of course)

I am aiming for high 20s, which I think is doable with the right engine, and my "granny driving".

-Dan
 

reece146

Automotive Artist
Yeah, I dunno about the MPG figures. Weight is the enemy for MPG... built Jeep with bad aero and mid 20s is likely the best you can get no matter what you install. At that point going for the space shuttle build and optimizing to the nth degree may be a lot of wasted effort.

Personally, I'd be more interested in excellent drivability and if that costs a mpg or two so be it.

The 4BD is the right sized engine I think...?

Have you seen Jeremy's 4BD swap into his FZJ80? He's got it documented at IH8MUD, 4btswappers and OverlandCanada. The more I read about this engine the more I think it is the right one for this type of vehicle. If it fits in an XJ it'll fit in almost anything. Remember the XJ was originally designed around a I4 and V6 engine.

 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
With minor trimming a 6bt will fit....:sombrero:

Ha. Interesting. Not that I'd ever want a 6bt, but interesting they made it fit, given it's 40 inches long (9 inches longer than the Merc 6-cyl I'm investigating)

Do you know if there is a build thread or more info on that truck?

Thanks
-Dan
 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
Yeah, I dunno about the MPG figures. Weight is the enemy for MPG... built Jeep with bad aero and mid 20s is likely the best you can get no matter what you install. At that point going for the space shuttle build and optimizing to the nth degree may be a lot of wasted effort.

Personally, I'd be more interested in excellent drivability and if that costs a mpg or two so be it.

The 4BD is the right sized engine I think...?

Have you seen Jeremy's 4BD swap into his FZJ80? He's got it documented at IH8MUD, 4btswappers and OverlandCanada. The more I read about this engine the more I think it is the right one for this type of vehicle. If it fits in an XJ it'll fit in almost anything. Remember the XJ was originally designed around a I4 and V6 engine.


The Diesel JKs get towards 30mpg, and again, with a stick and my driving, I'm confident I would see that. (though I don't want to spend $20k to get that engine over here..)

I don't like the numbers on fuelly too much... i.e. the 2001 2.5L TJ I had is listed at 15mpg average.. I averaged 20MPG in mine for 40k miles, but I also know I drive like a granny when on expedition

I understand people have different needs for an engine, I'm chasing mine, which puts mileage and simplicity/reliability very high.
I would be perfectly happy if it drives more or less like the stock 3.8, as long as it approaches 30 mpg.

I have not seen the build into the FZJ80 you mention - do you have a link handy?

Thanks again,

-Dan
 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
I've seen several reports of VW diesels swapped into TJs. It would certainly fit in a JK. If you didn't mind your four banger, then the power would probably be adequate.

http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm

Mike

I emailed them about this. Their JK swap is 99% complete and ready to go. It's identical to the TJ kit, just for the JK. Same prices, same power, same everything.

For my needs, I want to stay away from computer-controlled anything. I'm looking at the M-TDI mods to turn the 1.9 VW engine all-mechanical. It's interesting.
I'm also going to avoid high-pressure CRDs if I have the choice (which I do if I go with the aforementioned Mercs or the Izuzu)

-Dan
 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader

Thanks very much!

I had actually seen that on 4bt before, but the thread stopped so I assumed it wasn't done yet.
I just read through it on overlandcanada ... very cool.

The 4BD is on the short list for sure, though I think there are better options out there.

-Dan
 

reece146

Automotive Artist
I'd be interested to hear about the other options.

I know about the OM engines. They are good engines.
 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
I'd be interested to hear about the other options.

I'll list a few of the options I'm thinking/reading about.

Keep in mind that my needs are very different than most.
I want increased mileage, extreme reliability, and simplicity (no ECU, no electronics preferred). I expect to take this JKU 150k miles +
It must be able to happily run extremely high sulfur diesel, and likely low quality, "dirty" diesel. Bio is a plus, not a must. I will have extensive filtration to help with longevity.
Having it drive similar to the stock 3.8 is fine, I have zero interest in >250hp or >300 ft lbs. though I expect more torque down low will make it easier to cruise at 60mph up hills, etc.
A cruise speed of 60 is great, I don't need anything over 70mph.

Emissions, registration and rules, etc. are of no concern. It's not an issue where I live.

For all of these, I want a stick shift. I much prefer sticking with the stock 6 speed NSG 370, so there is no shifter, transfer case or drive shaft mods.

I expect my JKU will be heavy with everything else I plan on adding, which will impact potential mileage. I'm not interested in over 2.5 inches of lift. Likely will run 33s, maybe 35s

random order

Izuzu 4BDx
3.9 ltr, 4 cyl. Likely fits. Heavy. All mechanical. Not great mileage. No adapter exists, but it's well-known and I'm sure it could be made.
I think 3.9 ltr is overkill for the JKU and my needs.

Merc OM606 Turbo
Inline 6, 3.0 ltr 178hp, 243ft.lbs, should drive similar to the stock 3.8. Many people swap the Injection Pump from the OM603 onto it to make it all-mechanical. Good mileage. Has been adapted to the AX-15.
Another company is working on adapters for all the OM60x engines, and would make me one for a NSG 370.
Might be too long (at 31 inches), and would likely have front axle/oil pan issues that need resolving with something creative (oil pan from 603? rear sump? different oil pickup?)
Extremely reliable.

Merc OM605 Turbo
Same as above, minus one cylinder for inline 5, 2.5 ltr. 148hp, 207 ft. lbs.
Might do some minor tuning to bring it up to ~170hp, ~240 ft. lbs. so it drives like the 3.8 (It's common to build them to over 300hp, but I don't want to go crazy - I want reliability)
Hopefully short enough to fit, and avoid the oil pan/front axle clearance problem. Still trying to hunt down exact measurements.

I like the Merc diesels as they are relatives of the "million mile" engines, and are extremely common (parts, service) in many parts of the developing/undeveloped world.
Also, with twin overhead cams (chain, not belt driven) and 4 valves a cylinder, they are likely the most efficient all-mechanical diesels ever made, which appeals to me.

VW M-TDI
Lots of VW guys modify the TDI engines to be all mechanical, so they have absolutely no ECU.
The back of (almost) all VW engines are the same, so I could look for one of the 2.5 V6s, though I read they are not great for mileage.
HPA have a kit to bolt them up to the NSG 370, engine mounts, etc. etc.
I'm trying to investigate how the engine will handle high sulphur diesel - I can't find much on this yet.
Might be a little underpowered for the heavy JK, without an ECU it's harder to tune.

Cummins 4BT
I'm really not interested because I think it's too heavy and loud, with too many vibrations to make it enjoyable to drive for hours and hours.
I think 3.9LTR is overkill for the JKU and my needs.
The only reason it's interesting is because it's becoming very well "known", so it's a well trodden path. Reliability should be no problem.
Would require an NV4500 5-speed, which is bigger and heavier. Unsure how much lift is required.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

What else should I research?

Thanks,
-Dan
 

Septu

Explorer
Dan... don't you need a JK first? ;)

And 33s are fine. I'll go 35s this time around, but I never had any issues with my 33s on my 07 JK.
 

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