CV won't seal against knuckle dust seal after lift and manual hub conversion on 1st gen Taco. Ideas?

[roving1]

Hmmm... I put all the 4wd guts back in the front of the Taco. There is some slight CV binding at full droop so I think I'm going to have to drop the front diff, despite most of the internet saying it's not necessary for this amount of lift?. The real bummer is the passenger side CV won't seal up against the dust seal in the knuckle. In fact I can just walk up with it fully assembled and easily pull it out of the splines. The CV boot touches the a arm rivets holding the lower ball joint only on this side as well. I don't think it has anything to do with the lift. I hacked around with all the alignment settings and cycled the a-arm up in its travel range and it barely makes any difference.

So ******? My $300 OEM CV is borked? My suspension is borked even though a few measurements look the same? I am cursed?
I bought the CV's like 4 months ago so I am probably hosed. So I would probably have to order one from the dealer and then return the one I have, or maybe slap in an AutoZone one to see if it fits. But those are known to be way less durable. The driver side seems completely normal.

Or I can buy bullet proof high angle CV's for the low low price of $2,000 a pair.
FML. Modding vehicles is stupid.

Lift is 3" OME with SPC upper A arms.

Previously I had to go through a saga of where the driver side CV kept popping out of a True Trac diff. Eventually it got part of the c clip for the CV stuck in the splines and the CV was stuck in the diff about an inch outboard form its normal position. I had to ship the diff off to get it pressed out and have the diff reworked to not have the CV pop out. But this problem is now on the passenger side and looks like it is seated in the ADD housing normally.




View attachment lo res cv.mp4

 

[thezentree]

Is all that play with everything assembled like it should be? The boots being so close to the rivets in the LCA seems weird by itself (in comparison to a 3rd gen 4Runner) but the fact that the CV isn't tight inside the knuckle makes me think that you're missing parts or don't have the right parts.

 

[roving1]

Is all that play with everything assembled like it should be? The boots being so close to the rivets in the LCA seems weird by itself (in comparison to a 3rd gen 4Runner) but the fact that the CV isn't tight inside the knuckle makes me think that you're missing parts or don't have the right parts.

Yeah I went over everything. There is only one way all the parts go on the suspension. There is only one way the hub conversion goes in and that doesn't affect the knuckle distance to the CV anyway. I can slide the a arm cams and the SBC camber adjuster into the most advantageous position and it only mitigates it a little bit. The part numbers on the box match but I have not checked the shafts yet as the Pic I took was not clear enough.

You can push the cv into the hub with little effort. There is plenty of travel to let the seal surfaces mate but the unit wants to spring back to that position away from that point.

The driver side boot is only 1/2 a mm from hitting the rivets on that side as well so it's only barely clearing at full droop. On then ground there is no issue with contact but the slight difference is puzzling from driver to passenger.

The only thing different between driver side and passenger that I know of is the driver side has an addition small shim to counteract Taco lean on top of the strut. Which seems like it should make that side actually worse as far as droop but I don't know.

It's rather frustrating.

 

[roving1]

Are the manual hub side of the CVS supposed to have the psuedo c clip like what's on the diff side? I had to push both hub sides in with a little effort to get them to seat the first time. But I can't remember what was on the end of the driver side shaft. I know the passenger side has nothing. I wonder if I might have the same problem on both sides but the stiction of the shaft inside the hub is holding it there masking it for now. ?

 

[IdaSHO]

You are asking lot from those CVs, dust or no dust.

Id compromise and drop the diff a bit.

 

[roving1]

Yeah the SBC arms and joint seem to be allowing more droop than stock for sure. This is a pretty standard lift but it sure doesn't look like it at full droop. I was never against dropping the diff but with lockout hubs and many many reports of everything being swell afterwards with this exact setup I figured I would see what it looked like afterwards. This isn't a daily driver so I figured I would assemble it and see what what was what then go from there.

But I cycled the A arm up higher than what full droop would have been stock and it makes little difference in terms of the gap at the seal and the slack.

Funny thing is I didn't really want a lift but my rear stock leafs were toast and there isn't any good suspension for the front end w/o lifting either. Custom leafs were 2/3 the cost of a whole lift with shocks, throw in a winch on the front end and here we are...

 

[roving1]

I think I figured it out. I feel a bit stupid but it doesn't help that nearly every one of the manual hub conversion write ups and videos is doing it wrong.

Strangely I have AutoZone to thank. Their $80 no core replacement CV came with the circlip to hold the stub axle in and for some reason the $150 + $75 core OEM Toyota remans did not come with one. Then I was pretty sure this needed to go on the inside of the hub to retain the axle. I quick YT search of an originally equipped hub truck shaft change confirmed this.

So what is amazing is the 1/2 dozen write ups and videos I watched not one of them assembled this correctly. They are all putting the CV in last after the hub conversion which means none of the CV's are being retained against the seal correctly. My passenger one looks normal but I confirmed that with a light tap the one that looked normal also moved inboard. I would have never discovered this except I slathered everything in bearing grease so the stiction of the splines alone is not enough to "hold" the cv end against the seal. You have to have the manual hub off to access the snap ring and the shaft already installed.

Luckily I actually ordered the snap rings 6 months ago with all the other parts so even though the Toyota CV's did not come with parts I actually have them but completely forgot they existed.

So if you did a manual hub conversion and didn't put a snap ring on the end or installed your CV's last you did it wrong and your seals are likely not working correctly.

Live and learn I guess, but I hope this stops somebody else from wasting hours of time.

 

[DaveInDenver]

You solved it already @roving1 before I could make the suggestion. Unless you've owned a Toyota IFS truck with manual hubs you wouldn't know about the thrust washer and clip at the end of the the axle.

What he's talking about is the end of the joint that sticks through the wheel bearings and spindle. On most 1995+ Tacomas it looks like this. Splines that engage the drive plate, a big washer and nut on the end. Then the black steel cap that gets hammered on over it.



And look like this assembled.



On manual free hub Tacomas the end of the CV axle looks something like this. It's very likely if you don't know to look for it you wouldn't know because it's back hidden inside the spindle splines unless you push the CV hard from the back side.



And look like this when you're assembling the hub. This is before you bolt on the free hub.





It's actually a common mistake even with older trucks to not put in the clip. If you look at the end of the axle it'll be threaded internally so you can fasten a puller to yank on and seat the axle fully into the spindle and thus allow you to compress the seals and snap the clip in.

When you took the hub face off on older trucks there was a bolt and washer threaded into it just in case the c-clip broke to catch so the axle so it wouldn't walk completely out the back. That used to be mistaken for what was supposed to hold the axle in place but it allows an inch or so of travel without the clip, just like you've found.

 

[roving1]

Thanks for the pics it will be a good reference for any one not to forget or be confused.

Yeah I feel stupid because this is how my CJ-7 was and I actually ordered the parts. But that was 6 months ago I saw the exploded diagram and I have not wrenched on a CJ for almost 20 years lol.

What I get for trying to finish at 3AM instead of waiting.

I'll update the post but I still don't know what was going on with the clearance issues on general and passenger VS driver side.

For some reason some things on the passenger A arm are 2mm closer to the hub than the driver side. So on the passenger side the boot was hitting the A arm rivets, the sway bar link and the shock bolt. The arm looks factory and the paint and rust patina are identical side to side. I flipped the shock bolt and trimmed it, I moved the sway bar link to the outside of the bracket and clearanced the rivets.

The driver side I just clearanced one rivet as it was just kissing the top of it.

The end result is the cv angles are horrific at full droop and especially full lock even with the diff drop. But the drop was enough they are not binding and the other work has the boots not hitting anything. So success, kinda sorta.

I am convinced no one that said a diff drop was not needed with an old man emu lift ever checked for cv binding at full droop. Just bolted it on and went straight to the mall lol.

 

[DaveInDenver]

On a 1st gen Tacoma (or 86-95 torsion IFS for that matter) a diff drop may help. It's 2nd and 3rd gen Tacoma where a diff drop doesn't really do anything.

 

[roving1]

On a 1st gen Tacoma (or 86-95 torsion IFS for that matter) a diff drop may help. It's 2nd and 3rd gen Tacoma where a diff drop doesn't really do anything.

Just installed one tonight. It dropped the angle enough to get rid of the bind.

 

[Deleted member 13060]

WAIT, are you trying to tell us YouTube was wrong............ inconceivable.