Cost of an Alignment, setting all 8 control arms, and pinion angle?

Mitch502

Explorer
I am taking my Jeep to a local 4WD shop with a great reputation. I recently lifted my Jeep 5.5" (3.5" springs, 2" spacers) and put all 8 adjustable control arms on.

The shop quoted me $200 to have a full alignment including setting the control arms and setting pinion angle/track bar.

Does this sounds reasonable? Right now the alignment is terribly off, and it was near impossible to install the control arms. They're waaaaaay off. All of them are different lengths. I feel like $200 is reasonable, given a typical alignment is usually $50-100, and they're going to be doing a lot more than just toe-in/out.


Mitch
 

wADVr

Adventurer
That does sound like a reasonable price for all of that. Do they have an alignment rack and are you getting a full alignment? I have never legitimately aligned any of my jeeps, I have done everything with measuring angles and distances etc. A lot of shops do the same.
 

Mitch502

Explorer
Not sure if they have a true alignment rack or not, but I've been reading that w/ it being a solid axle there isn't much to adjust, so doing an alignment is pretty easy.

I'm more concerned about pinion angle and control arm lengths....
 

HAFICON

Adventurer
Around here it is $90 ish dollars for a front alignment. Most shops will not even tough the control arms and track bar. But for $200 I would jump on it if they can dial it in. I just installed a Pro Rock D44 Unlimited and my Jeep rides absolutely terrible. I have gotten the alignment dialed in pretty close but the axle still shimmys side to side when driving.
 

JeepSafariDigest

Seeker of Lost Trails
True on the pricing.. In MD an alignment is $45.. and I willing to bet the shop is charging this because not many driving with a 5'' lift. Larger tires.. yeh they'll check the balance also, which some shops hate doing because the ties are so big and heavy. If you have a second smaller set of tires.. might be wise to drive over there like this.. this way the shop focuses on the alignment and not the tires.
 

thethePete

Explorer
That's a great price. The job is not small, and although alignments on solid axles aren't the toughest, however when you remove/change all the control arms you're starting essentially from scratch, which takes more time. Same with setting pinion angles. A quick set the toe alignment isn't that hard. Correcting for a lift, and new arms is tougher. I would say you got a bargin. The shop is probably gonna lose money on this if they do the job properly.

Also, get aligned on the tires you're gonna drive on. They don't make an end-of-the-world difference, but they do change angles. Especially if you were to get it aligned on a stock 30" tall tire and then put 37"s on.
 

bigones1993

New member
yeah id agree as well I'm taking mine in on Monday for a front and rear alignment at the jeep dealer and they are going to charge $129 and my jeep is a lot less modded and I guarantee they aren't looking at my pinion angle and everything else id say go for it $200 is totally reasonable for that large amount of alignment work.
 

mtbxj87

Adventurer
That sounds about right. I do a lot of alignments at the shop I work at. Aftermarket stuff makes it tricky, especially if the control arms have to be removed at one joint to adjust
 

Mitch502

Explorer
Just dropped it off. They said "$200ish"

They alao said I would have vibrations that could not be fixed...not sure if I agree with that.

Tires are literally. Brand new. Only drove them onto the trailer to take it up to get the alignment.
 

Stumpalump

Expedition Leader
That's a rip off. For 5 bucks and a coupon you can get an angle finder and free tape measure from Harbor Freight. That much lift will need frequent alignment and tweaks to your taste. Factory specs are long gone and you need to decide what works for you. Center axle with track bar. Get drive shaft pinion angle in ball park while watching castor. I like less castor because it turns quicker on slow stuff. Just ball park it at this point to 5 degrees by placing an angle finder on the knuckle's flat machined part by your upper ball joint. Now get it up on an articulation ramp and adjust all the arms for maximum up travel while not hitting fenders. Turn wheel lock to lock and check everthing like binding joints and break lines. Trim fenders and fix stuff with it flexed and set bump stops. Once it's safe, reset track bar, set castor between 4 and 7. Four or less is best on tight trails and seven is a joy on the hiway. I run 4.5. Toe out 1/4" is the king of the trails but 1/8" toe in is stable on street. Other tidbits are that castor rarely matches from side to side on a solid axle. Don't force it by cranking your control arms. Just let it settle where the axle wants to be. I've seen 4 on one side and 6 on the other. Factory axels are not perfect and that's OK. Pick a compromise. The newer your components then the less toe you will need. Perfect needs 0 but worn out junk needs 1/4". The best advise I've ever gotten is rarely used. Take this one too the bank.. You cannot build, set up or modify any 4x4 without an articulation ramp. You will compromise safety, components and leave inches of up/down travel on the table with out one. 200 bucks?? What short cuts are they taking and how the hell are you going to trust the handling from trail to interstate not knowing what your highly modified rig is set up to work the best at? Spend a week and 5 bucks and get the perfection out of that high dollar lift that you desire and you will be in off road bliss.
 

thethePete

Explorer
They're probably suspecting that they won't be able to get enough caster into the front axle because of the angle of the arms. That would cause a shimmy at higher speeds. Also, larger sized tires are very very difficult to balance out. If yours aren't, I would suggest getting them balanced with sandbags. A truck shop would be able to accomodate this, or perhaps an offroad shop. They're placed inside the tire and balance it dynamically while driving. Provide a much better feel at highway speeds. Plus you don't have to worry about knocking off weights on the rocks. Plus, as you wheel, you damage the carcass of the tire which causes it to become out of balance. Sandbags will accomodate this and provide a consistent ride.

Stumpalump, that's a pretty bold statement to make that it's a "rip off". Factory specs will work with a lifted vehicle. Adjustments to suit driver taste can be made at the cost of engineered stability and tire wear characteristics. Your "ballpark" alignment may drive ok, but that doesn't make it perfect, and that's probably part of the reason you need to make adjustments so often. If you're not wheeling your junk to the point of abuse you shouldn't be knocking **** out of spec very often. They make offset wedges and other things to make your camber and castor match side to side, or as is wanted; to give you a total of roughly .3-.5* of cross between your camber and castor/side to side. Different vehicles call for getting that cross different ways. It sounds to me like you're setting up alignments on trail rigs. If this thing is driven on the road, there are other characteristics to be considered besides articulation, and gravel is more forgiving of alignment angles than pavement.
 

Stumpalump

Expedition Leader
Offset wedges to compensate for axel twist and camber? Anything other than factory specs will be made at the cost of engineering stability and tire wear on a lifted vehicle? Good grief no wonder I don't help much anymore. He should leave it stock.
 

Mitch502

Explorer
Glad to spark some debate...

The alignment is mostly for setting the control arms. I'm sure I could do the research and learn about it more than just conceptually, but I'd rather have a perfect alignment that isn't going to prematurely wear my brand new tires in any way...professionals are professionals for a reason. They're good at what they do. And have the experience.


They said vibes would be from the rear driveshaft, which after reading around I don't think it's going to be a issue. I do need to swap the front driveshaft, which I had planned to do anyway (cv to ujoint)

I'm installing the wheel bearings tomorrow and will post back with the price and results.
 

wmshay6

New member
True on the pricing.. In MD an alignment is $45.. and I willing to bet the shop is charging this because not many driving with a 5'' lift. Larger tires.. yeh they'll check the balance also, which some shops hate doing because the ties are so big and heavy. If you have a second smaller set of tires.. might be wise to drive over there like this.. this way the shop focuses on the alignment and not the tires.

Where you getting an alignment for $45? I'm in MD and there is no shop around here for <$75!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

thethePete

Explorer
Offset wedges to compensate for axel twist and camber? Anything other than factory specs will be made at the cost of engineering stability and tire wear on a lifted vehicle? Good grief no wonder I don't help much anymore. He should leave it stock.

Yes. Clearly you know what you're talking about and I don't. No need to get all hackly now, I only do this for a living.

They make offset wedges to accomodate the position of the upper or lower balljoint, to correct for caster differences side to side, same for camber. You can also adjust one side differently than the other to a small degree within the adjustments of the arms.

"At the cost of ENGINEERED stability and tire wear" Reading comprehension helps. Yes. The stuff that engineers were paid very good money to calculate. It still applies when the truck is lifted. And if you read a little futher you'd notice I said that changes can be made to accomodate different requirements and handling characteristics. Anything other than stock, however, will change the way the tire behaves as it turns and scrubs and moves through the suspension travel. All that stuff matters if you drive on pavement. We already make sacrifices to practicality with our rigs, why not give them all the help we can? Also, your difference between the two sides that you're noticing, is supposed to be there. It compensates for road crown. That was the cross I was talking about earlier. There's some debate over whether it's prefered to get your cross angles from the camber or the caster, but you need it for the vehicle to track straight on a road with a standard amount of crown.

No one said to leave it stock, and some of your suggestions for alignment angles weren't horrid, but to make a blanket statement that it's a categorical waste of money is a bit weak.


OP, driveline vibrations would mostly be from your angles, I always forget how short the rear shaft is on jeeps. As you said, probably won't be an issue, I just deal a lot with lifted trucks and big tires, I know how they can do funky things at highway speeds.
 

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