onemanarmy
Explorer
manual trans too
Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison, COMING SOON!
- Thread starter orangeTJ
- Start date
manual trans too
Tex68w
Beach Bum
While I agree, the market would overwhelmingly agree with my opinion/observation by the sheer sales numbers. I am in no way knocking the Nissan, it's a worthy rig, but it isn't a Toyota in fit/finish, materials used (most notably the plastics and interior refinements), and most certainly not in the looks department either (again, my personal opinion, but a popular one by a large margin). A lot things I agree that function trumps form, but for most I'd be willing to wager that form is a larger part of their attraction to a vehicle than something like frame design.
I don't see GM pumping out a special edition anywhere close to the AEV concept seen in the video if at all and it sounds like AEV has no intentions of offering one either. The cost is just too inhibitive when compared to the full-size options already being produced. The ZR2 is a worthy entry to the category and it appears that the soon to be released Ford Ranger Raptor will be as well.
Jc1986.carter
Active member
I totally agree with you.
The price point will be the biggest challenge for most prospect buyers. You can get a new power wagon for the price of one these. Again it comes down to the individual and their needs/wants
The price point will be the biggest challenge for most prospect buyers. You can get a new power wagon for the price of one these. Again it comes down to the individual and their needs/wants
Jc1986.carter
Active member
By the term “one of these” I mean a current zr2 or trd pro (closest comps). Both are a couple of grand shy of a new power wagon if it’s built on a tradesman base on 2500.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I fully fail to see the point of a TRD Pro or ZR2 as well. The advantage to compact/midsize trucks to me is since I don't need a full size I might as well get the benefit of easier to park, easier to squeeze down trails, easier on fuel and cheaper to buy. But the market doesn't seem to agree when the Tacoma was really the only game left. As a result the trucks lost these advantages and I really am excited to see competition in the segment because hopefully some of those traits will sneak back in.
If you're waiting on any truck to get smaller and cheaper with a smaller, less powerful engine, you'll be waiting a looooong time.
There is a reason there are so many HD Ram builds popping up in this section. "Small" trucks have gotten so large and expensive that full size trucks start to make sense. If you are carrying any load for any length of time, like most of us do on trips, the half ton trucks are all but worthless with their severely limited payload for a decently optioned model.
DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
The Colorado is dimensionally pretty close to the Tacoma, within an inch on most. From what I've seen the global Ranger and Hilux are also similar in size. I guess I hope with competition comes a few more configurations without so much stuff and a price tag that's more realistic. I'm holding out hope with Ford because perhaps they'll want to target fleets.
ttengineer
Adventurer
The seat position is still garbage in a Tacoma, Colorado, or Ranger.
I seriously have no idea how anyone larger than a high school kid can drive one. The seats are small, the cabin is cramped, the seat is mounted on the damn floor, the engines are anemic. They are easily the biggest waste of money in the US and do not do anything well. And to top it off dealers expect you to pay 40k. It's laughable really.
Having said all that, the new ZR2 and the "Bison" are very cool. But they are built for ants.
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I seriously have no idea how anyone larger than a high school kid can drive one. The seats are small, the cabin is cramped, the seat is mounted on the damn floor, the engines are anemic. They are easily the biggest waste of money in the US and do not do anything well. And to top it off dealers expect you to pay 40k. It's laughable really.
Having said all that, the new ZR2 and the "Bison" are very cool. But they are built for ants.
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Clutch
<---Pass
Smaller more nimble package? ha ha that is funny! Hell man, you gotta warn a fella before writing such things, I damn near spit coffee all over the laptop. The ship has long sailed on the true nimble mini truck....as with most other things in 'Merica, like the size of their bottoms ...it has become super sized!
These Midsizes are damn near the size of the old Fullsizes.
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Clutch
<---Pass
I happen to like the seating position of the Tacoma...though I am not freakishly huge, nor do I toss back Big Macs into my gullet like a pelican as seemingly most of the average Americans do...
Do agree you don't get very much for what these things are commanding in price anymore. $35-40K for a truck that does nothing well is kinda ****************.
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DaveInDenver
Middle Income Semi-Redneck
You know, it's funny, this question. My Taco is larger than my old truck. By the numbers it's a couple of inches here, a few there. It certainly *feels* larger and takes up more space in the garage. The thing is it's got a 3 foot _smaller_ turning radius.
My 2008 Access Cab 4x4 with 127.8 wheelbase has a 40.7 foot radius and my 1991 XtraCab with 121.9" wheelbase was 43.3 feet. That is one thing I immediately noticed, it does turn tighter. The extra wheelbase does negate some of that turn radius in the 2nd gen, though. Your 1st gen is the best of them all, XtraCab 4x4 with the same 121.9" wheelbase is 40.0 feet.
Honestly, as much of a curmudgeon as I am I gotta say the steering on those old trucks was a transitional mess of linkages held over from the solid axle days. We forget that the trucks we got from 86-95 despite being IFS still were being made beside solid axle trucks so I suppose Toyota had to stick with the recirculating ball steering box, but with IFS-only might as well go all in and get the benefits of rack-and-pinion.
Todd n Natalie
OverCamper
Might depend where you are. Up here the ZR2 is about 10K cheaper than a PW or TRD pro Tacoma. Comparing current base model pricing anyway.... (ZR2 starts at $46,191, TRD Pro starts at $55,913 and PW starts at $57,765) Up here the 'ST' (the U.S. Tradesman) with the PW option only works out to be a grand or two cheaper than a regular PW.....
When it comes to size, there are different strokes for different folks.
Everything has grown in size over the years, but safety and other items have been improved upon as well. Couple this information with the market showing their lust for full-size vehicles, I am not surprised at the size of modern-day mid-size offerings.
I applaud Chevy for bringing something like this to market. We all know that it will be priced high, but at least it is appealing to the enthusiast. That is good for us all and hopefully it leads to other leaders in the industry following suit and innovating in their own ways.
Everything has grown in size over the years, but safety and other items have been improved upon as well. Couple this information with the market showing their lust for full-size vehicles, I am not surprised at the size of modern-day mid-size offerings.
I applaud Chevy for bringing something like this to market. We all know that it will be priced high, but at least it is appealing to the enthusiast. That is good for us all and hopefully it leads to other leaders in the industry following suit and innovating in their own ways.
Clutch
<---Pass
You can't please everyone, but you sure can piss 'em all off!
Perfect truck for me would the size of a 1st Gen Tacoma, 2000 lbs payload...and 30 mpg....OTD at $25K, it will never exist...well at least here in America.
It is really splitting hairs. If a person can't put a 1/2 ton or Hell even some 3/4-1 Tons (like a RCLB or Extra Cab SB) in the same spots as a midsize they need to look at their driving abilities.
Saying these new midsizes are more nimble than a current fullsize is laughable. (that wasn't directed at you)
I currently don't need a fullsize truck, but when the time comes to buy a new truck (have a half baked plan of selling everything off and buying an Airstream, at least that is the **************** agenda of the week, it will change perhaps by the end of the day today!)...anyways...I don't see the point or any major advantages of buying a midsize. Plus the economical advantage ship has long sailed away...
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I still see the mid-sized trucks (Tacoma, Frontier, Colorado and future Ranger) as offering distinct advantages over "bigger" trucks when it comes to mobility, not to mention cost of ownership (purchase, fuel, maintenance). Yes, even the mid-sized trucks are bigger than their predecessors, but they still offer a smaller footprint than what you get with a double-cab F-150, Tundra and certainly a 3/4 ton. Now full-size trucks seem less distinct from 3/4 and 1 ton's IMHO. Pricing and engine options aside, the 1/2 ton seems to have morphed into a pickup that has nearly the same footprint of a 3/4 ton, but only a fraction of the capability. And I suppose that makes sense given that they seem to be the truck of choice for guys who want to own a truck but have no real need for one.
Also, people who complain about the pricing of these high-end mid-sized trucks need to put things into perspective. What is the going price for a new Raptor? $57k-$64k isn't it? And that thing, while fast and capable, is wider than most 3/4 ton's and has payload that is worse than most mid-size trucks and has about the same towing capabilities. But people will still line up to spend mega $ on those things.
The ZR2 and AEV variant might cost a lot, but they are no different from the other offroad-oriented models coming from other companies.