Canter 4x4

HowardH

Adventurer
The Fuso Canter comes with 235/85R16 tires. Many people particularly when going to singles install considerably taller tires.

What does this do to gear ratios and do people typically install lower ratio differentials?

Also are there after market 2 speed transfer cases available for new US spec Cantors?
 

alan

Explorer
The taller tires if anything help the gearing, you certainly would not change the ratio to a lower ratio, taller gives you better cruise speed, low revs, better ride.etc etc
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
The taller tires if anything help the gearing, you certainly would not change the ratio to a lower ratio, taller gives you better cruise speed, low revs, better ride.etc etc
Ditto what he said....engine rpm at cruise speed falls more into the usable section of the torque curve ....with lower standard gearing at cruise speed, it's close to redline and on the falling tail of the torque curve ...if that makes sense. Gearing is much better anyway....36" tyres is about optimum IMO.
 

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HowardH

Adventurer
I get the physics of it.

So you are saying the Fuso engineers didn't choose the proper gear ratio tire size combinations?
 

rambrush

Adventurer
I would venture a guess that they wanted a work truck that could pull heavy loads all day long up and down grades. But now we want them to do 70 down a highway they were not engineered for. So the options would be to change gear ratio or go with taller tires to keep rpm's down.
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
No I don't think they got it wrong. ...maybe we (as in the recreational market) tend to use these commercial trucks for purposes that are slightly outside of their original scope. For carrying a 3.5 ton load around an icy mountain pass or a construction site, the gearing is probably pretty good.....for carrying a lightweight camper at highway speeds all day, some higher gearing is very welcome.
Edit: sorry rambrush ...you just beat to the same conclusion.
 

HowardH

Adventurer
Anticipating heavy loads sounds plausible. Aren't expedition campers typically pushing max vehicle weight?

I do wish the taller super single tires but also the ability to tow a heavy load hence my gearing question(s).

Edit. Posted same time as well. I am happy to think a camper can be lightweight compared to max load. How well would a Canter with an expedition style camper body pull a 9000 lbs boat and trailer?
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
I know a guy that used to run 39" tyres towing a very large boat (about 25 foot ) on soft sand. He's gone back to 36" single tyres but the gearing wasn't the reason for going back. He is also at least max GVM.
 

SkiFreak

Expedition Leader
So you are saying the Fuso engineers didn't choose the proper gear ratio tire size combinations?
One thing to note here is that the FG is geared quite a bit lower than the FE. By putting 36" singles on the FG it makes the gearing closer to that in the FE.
 

HowardH

Adventurer
Here in the US the lower gvw FE does offer a lower gear ratio. The heaviest one actually has a higher ratio.

FE 125 12,500 GCW 4.875/5.285

FG4x4 14,050 GVW 5.285/5.714

FE160 15,995 GVW 5.285/5.714

FE180 17,995 GVW 6.166
 

mog

Kodiak Wrangler
Anticipating heavy loads sounds plausible. Aren't expedition campers typically pushing max vehicle weight?
Our "Brothers from Downunder" will have the most experience with the 'new' Fuso/Canter, as they are surly a different animal then the old-school Fuso FGs.
Interest information John has posted in another thread here:http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/64021-Can-the-fg-handle-gvwr-off-road?p=923535#post923535

From above listed post:
My opinion only.........the FG is fine at full GVM. I know alot of people that haven't driven them struggle with the idea but they definitely work with 3 ton on the back and even more in some cases. I once carted 4 ton of building materials , mainly gyprock sheet and framing timber up to the lighthouse at Double Island and had to go through some embarrassingly deep soft sand and lots of it and then there was the steep climb over the headland to finish.......no problem. Well it never got bogged but it was basically sitting on the bump stops the whole way......just think how many Landcruisers would it have taken to cart that load? A lot of conventional 4wd's were going down in the soft stuff that day but possibly due to driver inexperience. BTW this was only an old non-turbo FG637 too.

Another time we took a FG 649 motorhome that was loaded 500kg over max GVM up a really steep and loose climb....how steep and loose? well a friends Hilux (Tacoma) with 35" tyres and a 4" lift couldn't get up behind us. He just spun. We were right down to low first but again no problem. If it had of stopped us too I think using the brakes heading down backwards may have been a bit exciting but again it didn't come to that. If it's loose a heavy load is a plus. Sure mud is a different story.

Most FG buses here in Oz run at full GVM......they do rainforest and desert tours, work loose, muddy, rocky mine sites, etc. again no problem. Oh and there are literally hundreds of FG firetrucks here.....they are all well above max GVM when they fill the water tank. They keep buying them for offroad work so.......

Single wheels make a huge difference.........plenty of other tricks too but wheels are the single best mod............BTW our own front diff lock seems to have taken forever but we should be finished testing by the end of August.


And some more good info from John on the 'new' Canter here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/69422-New-FGB-71-for-2012?p=987926#post987926
 

HowardH

Adventurer
Thanks for the links Mog, good info. I think some background may put my question concerning gear ration in a better light.

I have no doubt, as John has said, that the Canter will pull a load at slow speed through the sand. How will it do at highway speed, 55 MPH, when it hits a two mile long 3-5% grade, while towing a 9000lb trailer?

I am looking at a new Cantor FG4x4 with flatbed and a 13-15 foot camper with a pop top. I wish to use this vehicle to tow my boat.





As you can see it sits pretty tall on the trailer and creates a lot of wind resistance. On the trailer with a full load of fuel but no gear etc it weights 8660 lbs.

So I do wish the taller "singles" for some off road and snow & sand but it still needs to perform reasonable well on the highway.
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Howard ,, we have no experience here with the model you get in the USA.....they are all 3 litre autos aren't they? If anything they should tow as good if not better than the 5 speeds we get but I'd definitely be asking someone there who has one for comment. I do not know anyone here that has bought a new manual 3 litre FGB for private use nor do I know anyone that has towed with one.
 

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HowardH

Adventurer
Yes 4 cylinder 3.0 liter with something called a DUONIC® 6-speed automated manual.

As far as asking.........I have tried........LOL........even the sales people profess ignorance.

Anyways it all ties into my concern and question about the taller tires having a big effect on gearing and therefore highway speed towing performance. Also a 2-speed transfer case has obvious advantages in low speed situations.

Either way I appreciate all the expertise available on this site and how willingly it's shared.
 

HowardH

Adventurer
I am in the same spot your are..........well sort of..........do I purchase a Cantor and build a box on it or do I use my F350. With the Canter I get a 13-14 foot box with that 20' overall length. With the F350 I can get a 10' flat bed and perhaps a 12' box max but be a much longer package. However I have yet to find a hill I can't climb at 65mph with boat in tow. :)

It really is great to have choices. That is half the fun.
 
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