Can we talk coffee brewing?
- Thread starter julieboolie
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Herbie
Rendezvous Conspirator
Chuck, you can bang on about cognitive dissonance all you want, but that doesn't make your argument stronger, nor does it make trying to practice a LNT approach void. There's no dissonance in having the goal of minimizing one's impact in all aspects of backcountry travel. Maybe you aren't actually familiar with the tenets of Leave No Trace, but you should understand that the philosophy fully encourages getting into the wilderness, but asserts that there's a right and wrong way to do it.
To address your list specifically:
1) "Offroading damage" - LNT advocates for travelling and camping on durable and well-traveled surfaces, wherever possible. The goal is to confine the damage to limited areas. Stick to the trail, camp in areas previously used by others, etc. If you're off trailblazing and bashing through foliage then sure, you're creating damage, but most people don't actually do that.
2) Re: Human waste - As part of the principal of proper waste handling, again the goal is to minimize damage. If you're in a lightly travelled area, the old methods of burying waste and packing out the paper is usually acceptable. We travel in more popular areas, so we pack out all the waste.
3) Firepits - Again, the principal is to minimize the damage. This means using established firepits where possible. We travel in the backcountry but definitely don't create these either - we use an elevated container since in our area there is a fragile ecosystem that is damaged by heat and fire scars last literally for decades. (Moreover, in our favorite parks building a firepit is against the law and will earn you a hefty fine.)
4) Oil leaks - My truck doesn't leak. If it did, I'd fix it before I went to the backcountry. If you're offroading and knowingly leaving oil behind, you're the kind of "enthusiast" who will get the rest of us locked out of areas.
"Crazy over things that don't matter in the big picture" is exactly the kind of self-centered thinking that causes a build-up of damage. One guy throwing coffee grounds out isn't a big deal. Two guys knocking over a Joshua tree while out wheeling is a recoverable blight. It's the accumulation of literally hundreds of thousands of people using an area that is the issue. Mt. Whitney is a great example - part of getting a hike-through permit there now involves proving you have a waste-management scheme. Why? Because there is literally so much human traffic that there are parts of that route where it became impossible to bury one's crap without running into someone else's older crap. No one person did anything "wrong", but the route is too popular to absorb the traffic if everyone doesn't do better.
The phrase my local rangers use is "Loved to death". They're happy so many people love to come to their parks - they just wish we were all better stewards.
Here's my ultimate litmus test for how to behave in the back country: Would you act the same in front of a ranger as when you're alone? Even if it wasn't strictly illegal in the area, would you make your ranger a cup of coffee then toss out the grounds while they looked on?
I'll continue to use my paper filters and pack out my waste.
To address your list specifically:
1) "Offroading damage" - LNT advocates for travelling and camping on durable and well-traveled surfaces, wherever possible. The goal is to confine the damage to limited areas. Stick to the trail, camp in areas previously used by others, etc. If you're off trailblazing and bashing through foliage then sure, you're creating damage, but most people don't actually do that.
2) Re: Human waste - As part of the principal of proper waste handling, again the goal is to minimize damage. If you're in a lightly travelled area, the old methods of burying waste and packing out the paper is usually acceptable. We travel in more popular areas, so we pack out all the waste.
3) Firepits - Again, the principal is to minimize the damage. This means using established firepits where possible. We travel in the backcountry but definitely don't create these either - we use an elevated container since in our area there is a fragile ecosystem that is damaged by heat and fire scars last literally for decades. (Moreover, in our favorite parks building a firepit is against the law and will earn you a hefty fine.)
4) Oil leaks - My truck doesn't leak. If it did, I'd fix it before I went to the backcountry. If you're offroading and knowingly leaving oil behind, you're the kind of "enthusiast" who will get the rest of us locked out of areas.
"Crazy over things that don't matter in the big picture" is exactly the kind of self-centered thinking that causes a build-up of damage. One guy throwing coffee grounds out isn't a big deal. Two guys knocking over a Joshua tree while out wheeling is a recoverable blight. It's the accumulation of literally hundreds of thousands of people using an area that is the issue. Mt. Whitney is a great example - part of getting a hike-through permit there now involves proving you have a waste-management scheme. Why? Because there is literally so much human traffic that there are parts of that route where it became impossible to bury one's crap without running into someone else's older crap. No one person did anything "wrong", but the route is too popular to absorb the traffic if everyone doesn't do better.
The phrase my local rangers use is "Loved to death". They're happy so many people love to come to their parks - they just wish we were all better stewards.
Here's my ultimate litmus test for how to behave in the back country: Would you act the same in front of a ranger as when you're alone? Even if it wasn't strictly illegal in the area, would you make your ranger a cup of coffee then toss out the grounds while they looked on?
I'll continue to use my paper filters and pack out my waste.
I’m an aeropress and French press guy, but just got a Bialetti today, it makes a really good cup, I wish I got the bigger one!
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vtsoundman
OverAnalyzer
WTF happened to this forum? When did it get so filled with virtue signaling self-righteous Bungholes? Sheesh. Not every thread needs to harp on Leave No Trace principles. @Moderators - pls start deleting posts and warn folks that are making this forum a crappy place to visit.
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IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
DirtWhiskey
Western Dirt Rat
Yeah there are multiple reasons for not wanting to deal with grounds. Sure there is the impact, which is minimal if mitigated (buried or scattered). Me? I just don't want to DEAL with grounds when I'm backpacking. Another thing is bear country. Your best off burying the grounds where you poop. Sorry to go there but odors are no bueno. Spent three weeks in the Fitzpatrick wilderness in Wyoming this summer. Lots of bear sign including possible grizzly sign. I also hate cleaning little bits of grounds. Especially in the desert in my back yard in Utah. Many times I am in very fragile ecosystems and far from water. So yeah I do instant when packing. Drink, rinse, walk.Of course no one is going to dump it on the ground at a KOA.
offroading does way more damage than a table spoon of coffee grounds, it can be argued that the coffee grounds would help the environment, plus people are pissing and taking dumps, firepits, oil leaks ( one drop would be much worse than coffee)
cognitive dissonance , when two actions or ideas are not psychologically consistent with each other, people do all in their power to change them until they become consistent. This triggered by the person's belief clashing with information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.
No one wants to harm the environment but people are going crazy over things that don't really matter in the big picture, when at the same time are doing things that are much more harmful.
Next will be paper coffee filters, if you don't use reusable filters you're a bad bad bad person and soon a better human will come along to tell you how wrong you are.
Hilldweller
SE Expedition Society
I've recently been switching up my instants.
I used to drink this in the summer cold but I tried it with hot water and it's great. I can get it at most of the Asian supermarkets around here for $3-$4 a box.
No grounds on the ground, no filter. And I admit to several calls of nature behind that tree. Will look for the camera next time and wave.
I used to drink this in the summer cold but I tried it with hot water and it's great. I can get it at most of the Asian supermarkets around here for $3-$4 a box.
Amazon.com : Premium Vietnamese Coffee | Cafe Pho | Instant Iced Black Coffee | 9 Sachets (black) : Grocery & Gourmet Food
Amazon.com : Premium Vietnamese Coffee | Cafe Pho | Instant Iced Black Coffee | 9 Sachets (black) : Grocery & Gourmet Food
www.amazon.com
No grounds on the ground, no filter. And I admit to several calls of nature behind that tree. Will look for the camera next time and wave.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
I've never been able to find an instant I could tolerate, at least not in the US.
I remember when I was stationed in Korea there was some kind of instant coffee that came in a little tube that already had cream and sugar in it. Pour it into hot water and mix.
It was tolerable, IIRC, although I have to admit that when you're in the field in Korea in February pretty much any hot liquid is going to be acceptable so I'm not sure my standards were very high.
Also, when comparing instant to the coffee that comes out of the percolator in the TOC (Tactical Operations Center), where it just cooks for days and days until it comes out like black tar, almost anything would be an improvement
Nevertheless, after a few years of using a French press and trying to keep the screen and cup clean, I finally just gave up and went back to a plastic Melitta cone with disposable paper filters. While a French press might be "better" for a "coffee connoisseur" the Melitta filtered coffee is "good enough" for me and the best part is, I can throw away the paper filter with the grounds, wipe out the plastic cone and be done - no other clean up is necessary. Filters are cheap and can be found in any grocery store in the country and it can use any coffee.
I remember when I was stationed in Korea there was some kind of instant coffee that came in a little tube that already had cream and sugar in it. Pour it into hot water and mix.
It was tolerable, IIRC, although I have to admit that when you're in the field in Korea in February pretty much any hot liquid is going to be acceptable so I'm not sure my standards were very high.
Also, when comparing instant to the coffee that comes out of the percolator in the TOC (Tactical Operations Center), where it just cooks for days and days until it comes out like black tar, almost anything would be an improvement
Nevertheless, after a few years of using a French press and trying to keep the screen and cup clean, I finally just gave up and went back to a plastic Melitta cone with disposable paper filters. While a French press might be "better" for a "coffee connoisseur" the Melitta filtered coffee is "good enough" for me and the best part is, I can throw away the paper filter with the grounds, wipe out the plastic cone and be done - no other clean up is necessary. Filters are cheap and can be found in any grocery store in the country and it can use any coffee.
Antwon412
Active member
The Starbucks little packets are decent. I think they are called Via?
I‘ve had them when motorcycle camping.
CSG
Explorer
I think pourover is far better than French press coffee and use the same filter holder.I've never been able to find an instant I could tolerate, at least not in the US.
I remember when I was stationed in Korea there was some kind of instant coffee that came in a little tube that already had cream and sugar in it. Pour it into hot water and mix.
It was tolerable, IIRC, although I have to admit that when you're in the field in Korea in February pretty much any hot liquid is going to be acceptable so I'm not sure my standards were very high.
Also, when comparing instant to the coffee that comes out of the percolator in the TOC (Tactical Operations Center), where it just cooks for days and days until it comes out like black tar, almost anything would be an improvement
Nevertheless, after a few years of using a French press and trying to keep the screen and cup clean, I finally just gave up and went back to a plastic Melitta cone with disposable paper filters. While a French press might be "better" for a "coffee connoisseur" the Melitta filtered coffee is "good enough" for me and the best part is, I can throw away the paper filter with the grounds, wipe out the plastic cone and be done - no other clean up is necessary. Filters are cheap and can be found in any grocery store in the country and it can use any coffee.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Well, certainly it's quicker and much easier to clean up. About the only thing I've noticed is that I have to use more coffee, relatively speaking, to get the same "strength" of brew when using the paper filters. I think this is because the cone shape results in the water quickly draining into the lower part of the cone and the coffee near the top of the cone isn't "used" as much as the coffee further down. I'm wondering at this point if a narrower cone might be better at least in the sense of using less coffee grounds.
Having said that, I'm typically using fairly inexpensive coffee so if I have to use a little more it doesn't bother me. I don't really drink 'gourmet' coffee so grocery-store brand is usually "good enough" for me.
We monitor these forums more than any other online community I've been associated with. It should be noted, however, that Expedition Portal subscribes to Tread Lightly principals and will advocate for them anywhere we can. We won't however allow folks to be jerks about it.
Thanks D
krick3tt
Adventurer
I use a percolator and the little round filters that only cover the bottom of the part that holds the coffee. I dump them (grounds) into my bag inside my trasharoo and use the last bit of coffee in the pot to rinse the insides out.
I also use blue rolled shop towels rather than paper towels cause they last longer, they also go into the trasheroo along with any other trash I accumulate.
I bush camp rather than camp grounds but when I do there is usually a pit toilet in a campground, some are rather less than pleasant, but better/easier than digging holes every time.
Instant coffee is for expediency rather than great taste. Although I have found some instant that contains the cream and sugar in there already. Those are really good for me.
Best is a shot of Bailies in the coffee when I am morning lounging and not going to be driving anytime soon.
I also use blue rolled shop towels rather than paper towels cause they last longer, they also go into the trasheroo along with any other trash I accumulate.
I bush camp rather than camp grounds but when I do there is usually a pit toilet in a campground, some are rather less than pleasant, but better/easier than digging holes every time.
Instant coffee is for expediency rather than great taste. Although I have found some instant that contains the cream and sugar in there already. Those are really good for me.
Best is a shot of Bailies in the coffee when I am morning lounging and not going to be driving anytime soon.