Can the iPad really be used as an out-of-signal range, off-road GPS device?

[Rando]

In the case above, I don't think the iPhone is passing the iPad anything and there is no GPS involved. The iPad is estimating it's own position based on a database of Wifi MAC addresses. If the iPad can see a router with MAC address xx:xx:xx:xx it then queries the database to see where the router is located and know that it must be within 200 feet of the position of that Wifi Router. If it doesn't have the data base loaded, it could be using the iPhone network connection to download the wifi database, but I think that at least the local area is cached on the device. This works with a Wifi only iPad with out being tethered, or even on a laptop. If you can see multiple wifi networks, then maybe it can do some triangulation based on RSSI to get a better position, but that only helps so much:

Wi-Fi positioning system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course this doesn't work at all where there are no wifi networks.

 

[cactusjk]

So which Bluetooth GPS is recommended?

 

[skyfree]

In the case above, I don't think the iPhone is passing the iPad anything and there is no GPS involved. The iPad is estimating it's own position based on a database of Wifi MAC addresses. If the iPad can see a router with MAC address xx:xx:xx:xx it then queries the database to see where the router is located and know that it must be within 200 feet of the position of that Wifi Router. If it doesn't have the data base loaded, it could be using the iPhone network connection to download the wifi database, but I think that at least the local area is cached on the device. This works with a Wifi only iPad with out being tethered, or even on a laptop. If you can see multiple wifi networks, then maybe it can do some triangulation based on RSSI to get a better position, but that only helps so much:

Wi-Fi positioning system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course this doesn't work at all where there are no wifi networks.

Don't think so, because I tested that theory by turning off the hotspot on the iPhone, but leaving WiFi on on the iPad. It instantly lost the location.

Next time I'm out of cell service range and not around any buildings that could possibly have WiFi I'll tether and test it out.

This is irrelevant to me since I do have an InReach Mini that I could connect to, but the engineer in me really wants to get this answered.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Don't think so, because I tested that theory by turning off the hotspot on the iPhone, but leaving WiFi on on the iPad. It instantly lost the location.

Next time I'm out of cell service range and not around any buildings that could possibly have WiFi I'll tether and test it out.

This is irrelevant to me since I do have an InReach Mini that I could connect to, but the engineer in me really wants to get this answered.

Apple isn't exactly open but I also didn't think WiGLE was something they were using. Maybe Skyhook or some adaptation in iBeacon. I'm fairly certain Apple devices are constantly location fingerprinting each other for various reasons, like Find Me/My <device>, contact tracing, Goodness knows what else. So having the unadvertised ability to stuff a location to a non-GPS device so it can be tracked wouldn't surprise me, you weren't supposed to notice it.

 

[skyfree]

I wanted to update this with my findings. I couldn't find a spot locally without cell data coverage, so I had to wait until I went to Death Valley.

Anyway, @Rando you are 100% correct. Sorry I came up with this theory and polluted the thread with useless speculation. It's crazy to me that it works this way, but if the phone cannot update the online database with its location, the iPad cannot get its position from the wi-fi. This is dumb, but that's how it works. The minute I lost cell data coverage, the iPad lost position.

Apple CarPlay projects the Gaia GPS info nicely on my Chevy Colorado ZR2. That was what I used the most. It even shows the satellite view clearly, including the route overlays. It does not show elevation data, so I would have both the phone and CarPlay going for that.

I found the Gaia GPS app on my iPhone 12 to be a bit buggy though. It stops updating the elevation data sometimes, and stops showing routes at times.

The CarPlay part does not pan and sometimes doesn't respond to other commands. Slightly annoying, but that's just because I expect controls that are present to work, even if I don't need them in practice.

 

[4x4tripping]

After travelling over 70`000 Miles in the last years with the above rig (Transafrica, Southamerica, Europe, Iceland) , with just an iPad / iPhone as Navigation Unit: It works nice. I always are using an Ipad with simcard option for navigation purpose.

The Start was at 2012 with the transafrica. I cant understand that we discuss about if it is possible or exactly enough at 2021? Even the Screenshot of the map above (background) - is taken from GPX Recording on the iPad.

If you haven't used Google Maps offline, give it a try. It's simple and fast, and I'd like to see that kind of useability come to a backcountry navigation app.

Serious? Nothing can beat google maps, as long you have cell coverage. It isnt really practically usable for am extended journey to download areas - because you dont know where you dont have access in front. And you can just load small parts.

For Offline Orientation (Offroad and Onroad) is maps.me nice , to see where you are, for the big picture. You have to download the map per country bevore you start.
For offline Road navigation is here the way to go. "Turn right in the colorado road in 50m" is possible. You have to download the map per country bevore you start.
For offline offroad Navigation severall Apps are able to. Onx, GaiaGPS, Mapout, Locuspro, and severall more. You have to download the map bevore you start.
For offline Track-Navigation I like wikiloc. The "Member" Account allows to use it better offline - but it is usable too without. You have to download the Track bevore you start.
For US Track Navigation you get get a lot of useful information there: https://offroadpassport.com/forums/topic/5842-online-trip-planning-resources-gps-maps-gpx-downloads/

You probably will like my personal list of favorite travel-apps too. I hope the links did help to get an better overview.

trippin

 

[Superduty]

How much ipad memory is recommended? Obviously downloading offline maps takes considerable space.

 

[Howard70]

How much ipad memory is recommended? Obviously downloading offline maps takes considerable space.

Hello Superduty:

I prefer two things in the iPads I use for GAIA:

1. Cellular capable to make downloading maps faster & easier in my situation and to get a dedicated GPS.

2. Just a bit more memory than I initially thought I could afford. Current iPad 12.9 has 1 TB. About 350 - 400 GB of that is GAIA downloaded maps & World Imagery satellite tiles. I'm not an expert, but my experience suggests that the iPad works more quickly when the available memory has some "breathing room." Thus if you figure you might approach 500 GB downloaded map tiles, you might consider a 1 TB iPad for better performance. But if saving money is more important than performance you could try just squeaking by with a 500 GB tablet. Of course if you don't need a lot of downloaded maps then something much smaller could work.

Howard