Campfire In A Can (Wood burner)

XJBANKER

Explorer
I understand projects fail but I do not think they held up their end of the agreement.

If the project fails they ate supposed to come up with a solution to help backers. At least show us recipes of where the money went. I want to know why they even spent our shipping dollars. We should at least get that back. I am surprised that Expedition Portal as a whole is not more involved with getting answers when they are listed as a supporter for the project. Again I understand things fail but it feels more like fraud because they will not produce things thay have been asked for. Reciepts or photos of what was actually worked on or what was not up to their standards from the company that was supposed to tool the project.
 

Tiktaalik

Supporting Sponsor
I have been following this closely and I have read all the comments on the Kickstarter site. I take interest because I just successfully completed a Kickstarter project. This whole situation saddens me. I feel sorry for all you backers who put your good faith into this project. Here's a couple of observations from someone who currently works in product development and has done so for the past 14 years.

ExPo has no obligation to do anything. They are not a supporter. If you look closely on the campaign its just a list of websites and media outlets where this product has been featured ("featured in"...). Nothing more.

Section 4 in Kickstarter's terms of agreement explains the relationship between created and backer in greater detail. Link here: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use#section4

Only the backers have full visibility to what the creators of this project claimed happened as the last 3 updates before the campaign ended were restricted to backers only. While I acknowledge that I don't have the full picture, it is clear that the creators were not being truthful and honest in their representation of this project. Anyone who names their campaign "The Amazing..." that should be your first clue.

There's more to this story than we are being told. If someone has previous experience (and already an identical product currently in production) it shouldn't take 6 months to cough up a decent sample. We're talking sheet metal parts here, not the space shuttle. It just isn't adding up. The creators owe it to all the backers to be truthful and honest, regardless of how bad the situation is.

Perhaps Kickstarter could implement a track record rating system, something similar to eBay, that provides backers with some confidence and credibility that the project project actually has prospect of succeeding. At least with a track record rating system a backer would have a better idea of the level of risk they are engaging in.
 
Last edited:

pdxfrogdog

Adventurer
Wow, this is a really disappointing turn of events for everyone involved. I wasn't part of the kickstarter campaign, but I did pre-order the 3-In-1 model shortly after the campaign successfully funded. It seemed like a great design and I really wanted to add it to my camping equipment.

After months of waiting for it to ship, the company initiated a refund and I suspected that things were going to end badly. Pretty surprising given their existing presence and products on the market.

In the end, I have little to complain about... I got my money back. I'm not sure I would support their products going forward, given how the campaign became such a sh*t show and hundreds lost money. It certainly has taught me to never put any money into a kickstarter project.

For those interested, here is a Vancouver news channel's coverage of the story.
 
Last edited:

Finlay

Triarius
Wow, this is a really disappointing turn of events for everyone involved.
I wouldn't say for everyone - Leo Knight made off with ~130,000 dollars free and clear. All he had to do was lie.

He is a very bad person, and he should feel bad.
 

pdxfrogdog

Adventurer
I wouldn't say for everyone - Leo Knight made off with ~130,000 dollars free and clear. All he had to do was lie.

He is a very bad person, and he should feel bad.
Fair enough. He did not strike me as being very contrite in the interview I linked.
 

Robert Bills

Explorer
From the Kickstarter website:

When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.
Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

  • they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
  • they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
  • they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
  • they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
  • they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
Posting an "accounting" of funds used as percentages with no specificity whatsoever does not appear to be a good faith demonstration that funds were used appropriately. Also, using funds paid over by backers specifically for shipping charges appears to be a misappropriation of funds.

Has there been any discussion of lawsuits by backers against Campfire-In-A-Can? Websites discussing the issues?
 

Finlay

Triarius
Has there been any discussion of lawsuits by backers against Campfire-In-A-Can? Websites discussing the issues?[/B][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
Several members have been in touch with the AG in the state they reside or the AG of Nevada (Where CFiaC is registered). To my knowledge, all of have said that they do not have jurisdiction to prosecute this. The Nevada AG referred complaints to their Investment Fraud Division, who replied that the FTC had jurisdiction and not them.

I'm out 150 dollars. I could sue in Small Claims, and probably succeed - but then I'd have to collect from a company that doesn't have any assets and whose principals are likely shielded behind the corporation. There are other avenues. Point is, I'd have to spend a dollar to get a dime, and there is no guarantee that I'd even recover the dime.

Best to just move on.

On the plus side, Volcano Grills (volcanogrills.com) is offering a nice discount to backers. Mine was delivered today, and it's nifty. Granted, it's a grill and not a campfire, and we'll have to see how well it holds up, but it seems like a decent product that hits most of what I was after - and it was fantastic of them to come through with that discount.

If you were a backer and want the discount, send me a PM. Volcano Grills asked that we not share the coupon code outside of the kickstarter backers - so please don't ask unless you backed the Campfire in a Can fraud.
 

Volcom

New member
I'm out $150 and so is my dad. I'm really really bummed about it because I would have loved the propane version just for a campfire if Colorado places fire bans during the summer. I'm pretty pissed about the $150 too.
 

Recommended books for Overlanding

999 Days Around Africa: The Road Chose Me
by Dan Grec, Dan Grec
From $19.95
The Total Approach of Getting Unstuck Off Road: 4WD Self-...
by Robert Wohlers
From $59.95
Motorcycle Messengers: Tales from the Road by Writers who...
by Lois Pryce, Mark Richardson, Carla King, Sam Manic...
From $9.99
4WD Driving Skills: A Manual for On- and Off-Road Travel
by Vic Widman
From $17.27

Bigunit

Adventurer
Scored a Campfire in a Can NIB with the cover and grill at a yard sale today for $50. Christmas came early.
 
Top