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3. Big Windows in American Class-A Motorhomes


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Here I should also confess that one of the reasons I want to pursue a fully integrated design, is because this opens up the possibility of an interior that is much more filled with light.

Most expedition motorhomes are not only small and cramped, they also tend to be dark, because their windows tend to be small. KCT says that it can manufacture windows to any size specification. So a KCT window does not have to be small. In most fully integrated, Class-A American motorhomes, the windows on either side of the living-room area tend to be very large, so that the motorhome can take in the view.

Here are some pictures of the interiors of Newell Coaches, an American manufacturer of premium Class-A motorhomes that I admire:









See http://www.newellcoach.com/about-us/ , http://www.newellcoach.com/the-coaches/photo-gallery/ , http://www.newellcoach.com/features/standard-equipment/ , http://www.newellcoach.com/features/construction/ , http://www.newellcoach.com/features/floorplan-choices/ , http://www.newellcoach.com/features/specifications/ , http://www.travelchannel.com/video/designing-a-newell-coach , http://www.caranddriver.com/features/newell-p2000i-rv-review-feature , http://www.caranddriver.com/photo-gallery/newell-p2000i-rv-review-feature , and http://www.newellcoach.com/newell-coaches/coach-1519/ .

And here are some videos of the same:


[video=youtube;rTs2S7RTuGQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTs2S7RTuGQ [/video] [video=youtube;ImAAAejYTps]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImAAAejYTps [/video]


Of course, these Newell interiors also have such a sense of spaciousness and light because they have multiple slide-outs that physically broaden the interior space. And slide-outs are less advisable in an expedition motorhome, because of the mechanical problems they might generate.

But even still, big windows can make a big difference to a motorhome interior, and they can give it a tremendous feeling of spaciousness and size.


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4. Big Windows in Kimberley Off-Road, Expedition Caravans


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Now the immediate objection here will be,

"OK, big panoramic picture windows are fine for a Class-A American motorhomes, or a German Liner motorhome like Hymer or Concorde. But these expensive luxury motorhomes are only meant to be used in the United States or Europe! An expedition motorhome is different, and so it needs tiny windows!"

And the response is simple: Kimberley.

I greatly admire the interior and exterior design of Kimberley Caravans in Australia, a fabricator of expedition-grade, off-road, towable caravans -- see http://www.kimberleygroup.com.au/best-off-road-camper-trailer-and-off-road-caravan-in-australia , http://www.kimberleykaravans.com/off-road-caravans , http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/australian-off-road-caravan , http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/images-on-location , http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/gibb-river-road-photos-off-road-caravan-kimberley-kruiser , http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/line-of-windows , http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/offroad-caravan-roadshow-t3 , http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/t3-off-road-caravan-best-luxury-in-australia , http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/lightweight-off-road-caravan-interior-finish-options , http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/compare-to-karavan , and https://www.youtube.com/user/KimberleyTraining1 .

One of the reasons I admire Kimberley, is because their caravan interiors seem so open, so spacious, and so full of light. They really know how to maximize the potential of "one room design".

But first, some exterior "action shots" of Kimberley's top-of-the-line T3 Caravan, to emphasize that this is in fact an off-road, "expedition grade" camper, built to survive the Australian Outback:









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Now just look at the size and number of windows!! And these run along both sides of the caravan:








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Here are the windows again, as seen from the interior:








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And here are some videos of the Kimberley T3 Caravan:


[video=youtube;-SKALtSPglA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SKALtSPglA [/video]

I posted so many images of Kimberley's T3 caravan, because I think it's simply terrific design.

I don't know how well the Kimberley T3 works mechanically, although Kimberley seems to have a good reputation on that front. The T3 is a relatively new product for Kimberley, but see the positive reviews at http://www.tradervs.com.au/news-reviews/2013/1/kimberley-karavans-black-caviar-kruiser-review, http://www.kimberleykruiser.com/australian-caravan-and-rv-review#/1/ , http://www.caravanworld.com.au/reviews/caravan/1312/kimberley-kruiser-black-caviar-t3-review/ , http://www.motoring.com.au/reviews/...mpers/kimberley-kruiser-black-caviar-t3-41986 , http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring-s...amper-motorhome-reviews/kimberley-kruiser.htm , and http://www.caravancampingsales.com..../kimberley-kampers-kruiser-black-caviar-33130 .

Mechanical adequacy aside, simply in terms of design – simply in terms of overall aesthetic appeal – the Kimberley T3 seems miles ahead of most of the stuff one sees intended for off-road or "expedition" use. Everything from the T3's generously proportioned, usable kitchen countertop; to banquet seating area immediately beside the kitchen, that does double-duty as a bit of a living room, with reclining lounge seats to watch TV; to its beautifully sculpted, aerodynamic exterior, and a terrific black-white color scheme..... It's simply terrific design.

Above all, Kimberley seems to intuitively understand something very basic, something that seems to utterly escape so many fabricators of expedition motorhomes: THE JOURNEY IS ALL ABOUT THE VIEW OUTSIDE.

So one wants to ask: when traveling in most expedition motorhomes, how can the journey be about "the view outside"? How can the journey be about the view at all, when the view is typically through a tiny, pathetic excuse for a window, cooped up in a dark, claustrophobic expedition camper?


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5. Calculating the Size of the Side Windows: Maximal Glass for Arctic Conditions


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So Campo, here is your question again:

What is the percentage of thermal losses through the walls compared to the losses through, windows, cold bridges, ventilation and the rest ?

I don't know the answer to that question, because I am not an engineer. But if you are willing to do the rough calculations for a 9.5 m, fully integrated expedition motorhome, best to calculate very generous dimensions for the windows on the sides. As the previous posts should have made clear, one of the main reasons why I am developing a fully integrated design, is because this will allow for an interior filled with light. It will also be an interior that will have "a view outside", just like a Kimberley caravan. And an interior that will not feel claustrophobic, unlike most expedition motorhomes.

Now sure, it may seem an engineering contradiction to want to design a motorhome with lots of big windows, for travel in Siberia in the middle of winter, when temperatures reach - 40 C. But in a way that's the whole point of "concept" vehicles: they are supposed to drive engineers nuts!! :sombrero: Or, put more positively, concept vehicles are supposed to generate design-driven engineering challenges that engineers then dedicate their minds to trying to solve. Ever since I began thinking about this vehicle, I have been really curious to know just how much total glass surface I can get away with, with the vehicle still remaining reasonably thermally efficient in extreme cold temperatures.

So if you'd be willing, perhaps you might run calculations for "more glass", and "less glass", to see how much an increase in glazing will affect the calorific requirements for heating?

Of course, everything depends on the kind of glass used. That's why I asked at the very beginning about triple-glazed windows for motorhomes. I have been searching for a while for information about triple-glazed motorhome windows, specifically, and so far have come up short. I will probably have to investigate specialist suppliers of windows for marine applications, i.e. for motorboats, sailboats, yachts, etc. Windows designed for boats have to sustain a great deal of pounding, and so they might be just as suitable for motorhome applications. Many yachts are designed to cruise very far north and very far south, so I can imagine that marine-window specialists long ago created triple-glazed windows for such yachts.

In short, my central "design objective" is the maximal amount of glass possible, compatible with reasonable thermal efficiency in extreme cold, Arctic conditions.


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6. Calculating the Size of the Side Windows: The Concorde LinerPlus 940 as Exemplar


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To help with visualization of the surface area that might be covered with windows in a fully integrated motorhome, here are some side-profiles. First, here are some side-profiles of a Concorde Liner Plus:






Notice how in Liner motorhomes the biggest windows are always in the front, because the kitchen is in the middle, and the bathroom and the bedroom are located at the back.

What seems interesting here is that in these side-profiles of the Concorde Liner Plus, the windows do not seem that big, do they? On the outside, the windows do not seem to take up much surface area. It is kind of remarkable that just these few windows will create an interior space that feels so filled with light, so “open” to the outside:






Note that the seating and table position will look somewhat different from one image to the next, because Concorde offers the Liner Plus in different lengths, and with different seating options.


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See http://www.concorde.eu/de/modelle/ , http://www.demo.spherovision.de/me/concorde_cruiser/0_spherovision_webpan3/sv_wp3_viewer.html , http://www.concorde.eu/de/modelle/liner-plus/beschreibung/ , http://www.concorde.eu/de/modelle/liner-plus/ausstattung/ , http://www.concorde.eu/de/modelle/liner-plus/grundrisse.html , http://www.concorde.eu/media/filestore/1/1/8/2_c68542918dea18c/1182_c7e333f6747fe73.pdf , http://www.demo.spherovision.de/me/concorde_liner/0_spherovision_webpan3/sv_wp3_viewer.html , http://www.concorde.eu/de/modelle/liner-centurion/beschreibung/ , http://www.concorde.eu/de/modelle/liner-centurion/ausstattung/ , http://www.concorde.eu/de/modelle/liner-centurion/grundrisse.html , http://www.concorde.eu/assets/files/kataloge-2014/14319_Liner Centurion_RZ.PDF,http://www.demo.spherovision.de/me/...ion/0_spherovision_webpan3/sv_wp3_viewer.html , http://www.concorde.eu/de/modelle/centurion/beschreibung/ , http://www.concorde.eu/de/modelle/centurion/ausstattung/ , and http://www.demo.spherovision.de/me/concorde_centurion/0_spherovision_webpan3/sv_wp3_viewer.html , http://www.concordemotorhomes.com.au/index.html , http://www.concordemotorhomes.com.au/models.html , http://www.concordemotorhomes.com.au/linerequip.html , http://www.concordemotorhomes.com.au/linergal.html , http://www.concordemotorhomes.com.au/charismaequip.html , http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...taufaecher-orgie-6085453.html#fotoshow_item=1 , http://www.residence-campingcar.com/annonce/camping-car-poids-lourd-concorde-liner-1140/ , and http://motorhome-uk.weebly.com/concorde-motorhome-living-liner-plus-info.html .

But of course, the very big window at the front of the vehicle – in other words, the windshield – is critical here, along with the two big windows on either side of the cab area. It's these big windows at the very front, combined with all the smaller additional windows on the sides, as well as some skylights, that makes the interior come alive. One does not necessarily need to have two continuous walls of windows, as per the Kimberley, in order for the interior to seem spacious and not claustrophobic.

However, it's also worth noting how the view looks in the other direction: towards the back of the vehicle, where there are many fewer windows, and the interior space is much less open:







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Clearly the design of the Kimberley T3 Caravan seems much more spacious, because Kimberley takes the idea of "one room design" very seriously. This is all the more remarkable when one considers that the T3 Karavan in its two versions is either 6.98 or 7.32 m long, 2.27 m wide, and 2.89 m high. Whereas the various kinds of Concorde motorhomes pictured above are between 8.4 to 11.3 m long, 2.49 m wide, and roughly 3.6 m high (depending on the chassis base):










See http://www.concordemotorhomes.com.au/brochures.html and http://www.concordemotorhomes.com.au/specs/linertech.pdf .

In terms of interior volume, of course, the Kimberley is even smaller: just 6 m long, 2.2 m wide, and 1.91 m high.

One importance difference is that Kimberley does not create a separate bedroom space, so the bedroom's volume contributes to the overall feeling of one-room spaciousness. So too, in the Kimberley T3 the living area and kitchen are situated directly side by side. But of course the living/dining area in the Concorde Liner Plus is much bigger than in the Kimberley, can seat more people, and is far more luxurious. The Concorde Liner Plus also seems like it has much more storage space.

Again, the The Liner Plus ranges in length from 8.4 to 11.3 m. As a consequence, different versions have different "living/dining area" lengths up front, with presumably different sizes of window. Below, for instance, is an image of a version where the living/dining seems particularly short:





So for calculations purposes, it seems best to use the 940 M "Lounge" version. The following is a fairly good ground-plan, from which I have then inferred the rough dimensions of the windows, also using the side-profile photographs above as a guide:





I am focusing on the Concorde Liner Plus because it strikes me as a particularly well-designed “fully integrated” motorhome.

And so too, the Concorde Liner Plus series has models that are about 9.5 m long, my “target length”. More precisely, the Liner Plus 940 LS and M are 9.498 m long overall. A fully integrated design for an expedition motorhome will of course be higher, more like 3.95 m, because it will have either a Tatra 815 6x6 base chassis, or a MAN SX-44 6x6 base chassis. But in many other respects it would be quite similar to a Liner Plus.

Here are the calculations of these figures running clockwise, from top to bottom. But for the side-windows only, and not including the huge front window or "windshield":


.9 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ .55 m[SUP]2[/SUP] + .65 m[SUP]2[/SUP] + .75 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ 1.125 m[SUP]2[/SUP] + 1.125 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ .75 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ .84 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ .9 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]= 7.59 m[SUP]2.[/SUP]


In short, excluding the front window, the Concorde Liner Plus 940 seems to have windows that total roughly 7.6 square meters in surface area. But of course this is a very, very rough estimate, based on "scaling" the plans, and "scaling" the side-profile photographs of the Liner Plus.

This compares reasonably well to the Kimberley T3 Caravan. Scaling the T3 ground-plan above, the windows appear to be 4 m long on one side, and 3 m long on the other. Scaling images with what we know about the T3's height, the windows seem to be about 70 cm high. So:


4 m + 3 m (70 cm) = 4.9 m[SUP]2.[/SUP]


But again, the Kimberley T3 Caravan is a much smaller vehicle. It's just a towed Caravan and not a motorhome, and it' s just 7 m long, not 9.5 m long.


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7. The Large, Curved, Single-Pane, Bonded Window at the Front of the Vehicle


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Now I excluded the large, somewhat curved window at the front of the Concorde Liner Plus, because it will probably have thermic properties different from the side windows. The side windows can be at least double-glazed (as made by KCT), and perhaps they can even be triple-glazed. But the big windshield at the front will probably have to be single-pane:






These large windows at the fronts of vans and motorhomes are also called “bonded windows”. For an explanation of what “bonded window” means, see http://www.motorhomeplanet.co.uk/archives/546 and http://www.bondedvanwindows.com/bonded-windows.htm . I do not know what the equivalent term in French or German would be..... In French especially, it's probably some interesting word generated by L'Académie Française that is not even remotely similar to the English word "bonded".....:sombrero:

As near as I can tell, bonded windows at the front of cars and motorhomes are almost always single-pane and never double pane, for reasons that are well-summarized as follows:

Question: Can double glazed glass gas filled can be used to make car windows instead of single glass?


Answer: Anything can be done - but it really is not practical to use double glazed glass for automotives. Some of the reasons include:

1) A car windshield is made of two layers of glass bonded together with a thin layer of plastic so if it does break the plastic will hold the broken pieces of glass in place to minimize glass being thrown all over the occupants of the vehicle.

2) Automotive windshields are curved with the curve facing outward to greatly improve the strength and to do this with double pains is exceptionally expensive.

3) Because of the vibration and constant twisting a vehicle encounters during normal operation it would be virtually impossible to make a seal between the two windows that would last the life of the car and therefore moisture would get between the windows and obscure the occupants vision.

4) If a double glazed windshield system is used, it still would have to use the two layers bonded together with the layer of plastic for both panes of glass due to federal safety regulations and the weight of the winshield system would make a significant weight difference in the vehicle.

5) It already can be very expensive to replace a car windshield and a system like you mentioned would be so expensive to replace if it were broken it could easily cost more than the vehicle is worth to replace the windshield.

6) The air conditioning systems in cars can be made more powerful to overcome added thermal gain of a single pain window without a significant difference in fuel economy - the heating system uses heat from the engines cooling system to heat the interior of the vehicle so making the heating system more powerful makes absolutely no difference in fuel economy.

7) The current windows in automotive applications are already so thick for safety reasons that they provide exceptional sound dampening and to use a double glazed system wouldn't really help enough to justify the cost.

I hope my answer was not too long and I hope this helps.

See https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070506113407AAACM6H .

But you are the thermal specialist, campo, not me! So perhaps you might know of fabricators of curved, bonded windows for vans and motorhomes, that can create double-pane bonded windows that are reliable, and that have excellent R-values?

One can imagine that a market must exist for such large, thermally efficient windows. The mainstream motorhome industry is huge. All of the fully integrated motorhomes, like Concordes, Hymers, and the various American Class A motorhomes, need big front windows that have excellent R-values. These windows are not just windshields, they also serve as "picture windows" at the front of the living space when the motorhome is stationary. Here are some more images, of the big front windows in Newell Coaches:






In a certain sense the fronts of these Newell coaches give an even more accurate idea of what the windscreen might be like, because Newell Coaches are very tall: they are typically 13 feet 3 inches, or over 4 m high -- see http://www.newellcoach.com/features/specifications/ .

So specialist manufacturers who know how to create huge windshield/windows like this, with excellent R-values, must exist, don't you think? I haven't researched this yet. But campo, if you know of any good names where I could start, I would be very grateful.

In any case, I estimated that the front window in the Liner Plus is 2.5 x 1.9 m. So this adds another 4.75 square meters to the surface area of the windows. So the total surface area of the windows in a Concorde Liner Plus 940 seems to be roughly:


7.59 m[SUP]2. [/SUP]+ 4.75 m[SUP]2. [/SUP] = 12.34 m[SUP]2[/SUP]


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8. A Motorhome With a View: The Burstner Panorama


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Before we settle on those numbers, however, I want to “push” things a bit further.

To begin with, it would be great if you could do a specific thermal calculation for an even bigger front window, of the kind that Burstner is now offering in their new (2013) vehicle called the “Panorama” – see
http://www.buerstner.com/de/service/neuigkeiten/reisemobil_grand_panorama.html , http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/integrated_models/grand_panorama.html , http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/integrated_models/grand_panorama/equipment.html , and http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/integrated_models/grand_panorama/360_views.html :









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Needless to say, the last six images – images that I “grabbed” from the 360-degree view page – suit my rhetorical purposes perfectly. They demonstrate the kinds of views that would available from inside a well-designed, fully integrated expedition motorhome. They also suggest that maybe the front wind-shield in this particular Burstner is made out of a very special kind of glass, glass that is thermally efficient and that has an excellent R-value?

A phone-call to Burstner might be in order…..

The skylight over the kitchen is also very interesting. But skylights, like the side-windows, would probably be triple-pane, with good R-values.

For calculations purposes, the Panorama comes in various models, 8.3 to 9.2 m long, 2.3 m wide, and 3.0 m high – see http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/integrated_models/grand_panorama/floor_plans.html and
http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/integrated_models/grand_panorama.html :





Scaling the images, and accounting for the slope of the window, I estimate that the Panorama's front window is roughly 1.8 m long x 2.3 m wide, or 4.14 square meters. In short, it is probably smaller than the front window in the Concorde Liner Plus. But that's because the Panoroma is a smaller vehicle: again, it stands only 3.0 m high, instead of 3.6 m high, like the Liner Plus.

As near as I can tell, the vertical height of the Panorma window is about 1.4 m, and it slopes back about 1.1 m. In other words, the top is set back about 1.1 m. So if we use this set-back measurement from the Panorma, but the vertical height and width of the front window in the Concorde Liner Plus (1.9 m), then we end up with a front window that is:


2.2 m long x 2.5 m wide = 5.5 square meters.

So it would be great if you could work with this figure instead, for the front window. Imagine this as a window that is sloped back just like the Panorama, only bigger.....:coffeedrink:

Here are some videos of the Panorama:





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8. Newell Design Inspiration: Bigger and More Coherent Windows


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Note done quite yet.....:coffeedrink: Here are just a few more thoughts about window-sizing.

As Newell has developed its line of premium Class-A motorhomes, customers have increasingly wanted bigger windows, and more coherent windows. “More coherent”, in the sense of more “logical looking”, at least from the outside.

Most motorhome exteriors are a kind of patch-work quilt of windows of different shapes and sizes, seemingly strewn at random across the sides surfaces of the vehicle. The locations of the windows on the Concorde Liner Plus are a good case in point. They are all different shapes and sizes, and the line formed by the top-edge of one window is not necessarily picked up by the next window:





Older Newell coaches are no better. The following are images of a Newell Coach built in 2001 – see http://www.europeanperformancemotors.com/info/external/rv2/2001NewellCoach.html :






Notice how haphazard the windows are?

Now compare to the following Newell Coach, built 12 years later, in 2013:




See http://factorypricing.com/rv/Newell/47479 . Sorry, the PDF directly from Newell is no longer available on-line, but here is where I obtained it– http://www.newellcoach.com/the-coaches/new-coaches/ .

Also notice just how huge the windows are in this 2013 coach. Yes, Newell motorhomes in general are very large to begin with. They are usually 13 feet 3 inches high (4.04 m), and 45 feet long (13.716 m). Their rear axles are steerable, courtesy of ZF engineering, so even though Newell Coaches are very long, they have a tight turning radius of just 37 feet, better than many shorter mothorhomes.

Using these overall measurements as a guide, and scaling the images above, we obtain the following window sizes:

• in the bottom image on the Left, moving left-to-right, the windows are 1.2 m (high) x 1.8 m (wide); 1.2 m x 1.6 m; and 1.2 m x 1.8 m.
• in the bottom image on the Right, moving left-to-right, the windows are 1.2 m x 1.8 m; 1.1 m (high) x 1.2 m (wide); and 1.2 x 1.2 m.

So not including the front windshield, and not including the side widows in the cab area at the very front, the surface area of just these six window in this Newell Coach total:


2.16 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ 1.92 m[SUP]2[/SUP] + 2.16 m[SUP]2[/SUP] + 2.16 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ 1.32 m[SUP]2[/SUP] + 1.44 m[SUP]2 [/SUP] = 11.16 m[SUP]2[/SUP]


For legal reasons, I cannot yet post here some of my concept sketches for a fully integrated expedition motorhome. But let's just say that I want the windows to be big and coherent, like a contemporary Newell.

In the following image I have then adjusted the Concorde Liner Plus ground-plan that I posted earlier, to more closely reflect the amount of window glazing that I would actually like to use in the design:





Adding up these measurements for the side-windows, we have:


1.2 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ .55 m[SUP]2[/SUP] + .84 m[SUP]2[/SUP] + 1.6 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ 1.50 m[SUP]2[/SUP] + 1.50 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ 1.6 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ .84 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ 1.2 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]= 10.83 m[SUP]2[/SUP]


Of course, the front window is now longer as well, and angled back, as per the Burstner Panorama, and so it is 5.5 square meters. Ideally, then, the total surface of the windows in my concept design would be:


10.83 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]+ 5.5 m[SUP]2 [/SUP]= 16.33 m[SUP]2[/SUP]


But this is only hypothetical. It will be very interesting to see what your calculations say about the thermal requirements of so much window surface! Especially in the “extreme” scenarios, when the outside temperature drops below – 40 C....:REOutCampFire03:


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9. Burstner Panorama, UniCat, andConcorde Charisma Skylights


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And finally, we come to skylights.......

Most expedition campers will have multiple skylights, perhaps in order to make up for their comparative lack of windows? But even in fully integrated motorhomes where windows are abundant, skylights are often added to increase the luminosity inside the motorhome even further. For instance, the Burstner Panorama motorhome just discussed has lots of windows, and yet in addition it has a huge skylights above the kitchen, bathroom, and bedroom:





See http://www.buerstner.com/uk/motorhomes/integrated_models/grand_panorama/360_views.html .

Some Unicats have huge skylights above the sleeping area:





See http://www.unicat.com/en/pics/EX47HD-UnimogU2450L38-2.php .

And the Concorede "Charisma" has an enormous bank of skylights situated at the front of the vehicle -- see http://www.concordecampers.nl/concorde-charisma-3 :






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[biotect]

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10. MAN Neoplan and VW Kombi Skylights


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The most "extreme" examples of skylighting that I"ve come across in touring-coach buses specifically, are the panoramic extra side windows of the MAN Neoplan "StarLiner", and the skylights running right down the center of the MAN Neoplan "SkyLiner' -- see http://www.manbusandcoach.co.uk/news/starliner/ , http://www.neoplan.se/sv/bussmodeller/neoplan_starliner , http://www.papadakisbros.com/cms/en/starliner/starliner_design/design.html , http://www.neoplan-bus.com/cms/en/skyliner/ , http://www.neoplan-bus.com/cms/en/skyliner/galerie_1/skyliner_galerie.html# , http://www.corporate.man.eu/en/pres...e-new-NEOPLAN-Skyliner-in-Kortrijk-33664.html , http://www.sejari.co.rs/novosti/detaljno/39/Neoplanova+perjanica+i+za+kupce+u+Srbiji , and http://www.papadakisbros.com/cms/en/skyliner/index.html :









[video=youtube;NCthbTpOsBI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCthbTpOsBI [/video] [video=youtube;4uVNse7uO5s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uVNse7uO5s [/video]
[video=youtube;T6QD8Go8p5o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6QD8Go8p5o [/video] [video=youtube;fIfaz-5jtHA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIfaz-5jtHA [/video]



Buf for number and surface area of windows per volume of space, probably no vehicle beats the VW Kombi "Samba":






I will be posting more about the VW Kombi's design and what it "symbolizes" in the "MAN or Tatra" thread. But in advance, I should state that the light-filled “open-ness” of the VW Microbus seems to symbolize that it has nothing to hide; that it is curious about the world; and that it wants to “see” the world through as many windows as possible (no less than 23, in the Samba version). So for me, generous windowing is as much a symbolic, psychological, and almost "political" consideration, as it is an aesthetic one, a matter of designing an interior that will be filled with lots of natural daylight.


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[optimusprime]

This is all good stuff, ok so the technical aspect is mostly over my head,but its all learning,as they say,every day is a school day!

I remember yrs ago reading about some machinery being used at the Antarctic research stations, they had double glazed windows all round,with warm air being forced thruogh the two panes if glass.
Of course this was decades ago,and the machinery was only being used in that environment,so asthetic and comfort requirements were of secondary consideration.

Biotect mentioned earlier about having thicker insulation on the floor and roof.
Would it be for some sound proofing properties as well?
just an idle thought.