Brass vs metal bolts in an electric system

Photobug

Well-known member
I am putting in the finishing touches on my battery box. I am installing a coulomb meter and in order to try to mount the shunt to the battery. I have mounted the shunt to a bit of plywood. The bolts are not long enough to catch the 3 wires rings I need to install. I went to the hardware store to try to buy a longer brass bolt but it was not available in my local hardware store.

Is there a problem using a non brass bolt in an electrical system?

A tack on question: The VHB I intended to use to attach the shunt does not stick to the plywood as I hoped, neither does it stick to the rubber fuse holder. Any suggestions to mount wood to the battery? I was thinking hot glue.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Nickel plated copper is best.

Yes hot glue's fine just don't melt the case!

Really plain contact cement, hundreds of various glues will be fine
 

llamalander

Well-known member
The conductivity of any metal is probably less important than its corrosion resistance. Some dissimilar metals will inspire galvanic corrosion and brass is not one of them. Stainless should work fine.
If you have any screw holes in the base of the shunt, use those. The base should be an insulator and the plywood is as well, so connecting them with a metal screw should not hurt anything...
 

Photobug

Well-known member
Thanks I just intalled a plain steel bolt. I think the bolt was 8mm and I was limited in choices as there is only one hardware store and I am 2 hours from a city of any size.
 

mechengrsteve

Most time adventurer
I am putting in the finishing touches on my battery box. I am installing a coulomb meter and in order to try to mount the shunt to the battery. I have mounted the shunt to a bit of plywood. The bolts are not long enough to catch the 3 wires rings I need to install. I went to the hardware store to try to buy a longer brass bolt but it was not available in my local hardware store.

Is there a problem using a non brass bolt in an electrical system?

A tack on the question: The VHB I intended to use to attach the shunt does not stick to the plywood as I hoped, neither does it stick to the rubber fuse holder. Any suggestions to mount wood to the battery? I was thinking hot glue.
Do not assume the conductivity of metals is good simply because they are metal. Especially, copper-bearing alloys are similar to copper. A critical mistake many make is USING STAINLESS STEEL WASHERS in the current path of your system. By in the current path, I mean between two lugs on a post. Similarly, if you plan to use that bolt through the plywood to carry power, it had better be brass or copper. NOT steel or stainless steel (8% relative conductivity). They are resistors and will get quite hot (inside the wood).


Material IACS% Conductivity
Silver105
Copper100
Gold70
Aluminum61
Nickel22
Zinc27
Brass28
Iron17
Tin15
Phosphor Bronze15
Lead7
Nickel Aluminum Bronze7
Steel
304SS
5-15
2.5
 
Last edited:

Peter_n_Margaret

Adventurer
I suggest that 90% of the metal used in electrical conducting components is brass, not copper.
Copper is so soft as to be useless for many parts.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Yes most stuff is crap.

Tin plated copper is the way to go for the conductive terminators on important fittings.

Bigger ones, tin plated brass sometimes.

Yes you do not rely on those bits to be as strong, that's what steel is for.

Choose the right tool for the job, ensure the maker and the seller are well trusted, this is not the stuff to save nickels and dimes on.
 

displacedtexan

Active member
Do not assume the conductivity of metals is good simply because they are metal. Especially, copper-bearing alloys are similar to copper. A critical mistake many make is USING STAINLESS STEEL WASHERS in the current path of your system. By in the current path, I mean between two lugs on a post. Similarly, if you plan to use that bolt through the plywood to carry power, it had better be brass or copper. NOT steel or stainless steel (8% relative conductivity). They are resistors and will get quite hot (inside the wood).


Material IACS% Conductivity
Silver105
Copper100
Gold70
Aluminum61
Nickel22
Zinc27
Brass28
Iron17
Tin15
Phosphor Bronze15
Lead7
Nickel Aluminum Bronze7
Steel
Stainless Steel
3 to 15
8
But engine blocks and truck frames & bodies work for grounds...

Not saying you're wrong, but it also doesn't quite make sense.
 

mechengrsteve

Most time adventurer
But engine blocks and truck frames & bodies work for grounds...

Not saying you're wrong, but it also doesn't quite make sense.
I can understand how this is hard to wrap your head around. The most experience with this problem is in the boating community where stainless is common. You will find lots of forum threads on the topic with Nigel Calder, a legend in boat maintenance leading the cry to get this word out.

Here are some differing proposals. Maybe one will make more sense.
Anytime something is massive enough, it will conduct well enough as in the case of an engine block or frame....relative to a washer it can be said another way, anytime something is resistive enough, it needs to be massive.

I searched out a more complete list of metal resistivity specifically so I could find 304SS which is what most common stainless hardware is made from (similar to 18/8 which is also commonly used).
The conductivity of 304SS is 2.5% that of copper (see table link). High alloy steel is barely better at 2.9% and iron is 15-18%.

If you want to use 304 in the same way you use copper, it needs to have 40x the cross-section area or 6.3x the diameter.

While the 'length of wire' in a washer is very short, that fact works against it for heat dissipation. Current experiences all that resistance/heat in a small space. Even if it were in free air the concentration of heat generation and small surface to radiate, results in heat flow (conductive) into the wire or fuse. If they are on a fuse lug, the heat created by the washer significantly reduces the fuse ampacity (because fuses function by resistive heating and the terminal heat adds to the fuse material heating).

Fuse materials are aluminum/tin or aluminum/zinc alloys with a relative conductivity in the 40-50% range.

Using SS/steel bolts, nuts AND WASHERS is just fine as long as they are not in the current path. If they are only a clamp, they are so resistive, almost no current will flow through them. Placing a washer between two lugs, forces the current to choose between the high resistance path through the washer or the high resistance path through the bolt, since the washer is thinner, it gets most of the current.

I fully understand if you still can't believe it. All I'm advocating is to be sure you don't put a SS washer between cable lugs or on the bottom of a terminal post. If you just give me the benefit of the doubt, you'll never have a problem.
 

displacedtexan

Active member
I fully understand if you still can't believe it. All I'm advocating is to be sure you don't put a SS washer between cable lugs or on the bottom of a terminal post. If you just give me the benefit of the doubt, you'll never have a problem.
It actually makes perfect sense.

Thanks!

I was trying to figure out how to reconcile the two, and you gave me the pieces to do just that.
 

vtsoundman

OverAnalyzer
A fastener in an electrical system is not meant to conduct electricity - only act as a clamp for two conducting surfaces. It clamps ring terminals, bus bars, etc to another surface - like a battery terminal, another terminal, etc.

Use whatever ya want, as long as it doesnt cause galvanic corrosion, gall, or otherwise seize in place.

There are very few instances where a fastener is used to conduct electricity - you'll see grounding screws and a pass through studs. Decent studs are brass. Grounding studs aren't designed to carry current long term.

If you must use a washer between two conducting surfaces, use brass or copper - and make it as least as large as the two surfaces that are being mated...keep it simple. Use stainless fasteners if possible...if not, don't sweat it. Through some dielectric grease on exposed junctions and call it a day. If ya want it to be conductive grease, get some NOOX or similar/spec'd for the metals being used.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
 

john61ct

Adventurer
AFAIK NO-OX-ID "A Special" is dielectric not conductive

Or did you mean another product?

I am in fact looking for electrically conductive "grease" or paste, even adhesive. Suggestions welcome
 

vtsoundman

OverAnalyzer
AFAIK NO-OX-ID "A Special" is dielectric not conductive

Or did you mean another product?

I am in fact looking for electrically conductive "grease" or paste, even adhesive. Suggestions welcome
Hmmm..not sure where ya got that conclusion from. NOOX is most certainly conductive...been using various types for years. Google is your friend.


Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
 

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