Black Series fire hazard

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

I think the design is ok but it’s highly dependent on the component quality which has obviously become degraded to the point that the design lacks durability and service life. Most of us who build stuff have seen great examples of a long time solid product become useless garbage simply due to changes in the materials and quality of the components.

Okay assuming you are talking about Timbren I am going to get to the bottom of this. I am going to call them and ask them what they have done to there axels to make them suck so bad. I will get back to you ?

 

[calicamper]

Okay assuming you are talking about Timbren I am going to get to the bottom of this. I am going to call them and ask them what they have done to there axels to make them suck so bad. I will get back to you ?

Ha ha
Good luck. I bet the only guy that knows is the old dude that’s quietly trying to make it to retirement before the whole place goes to crap?. The young guys probably can’t tell the difference between a 3500 and a 5000lb product unless it has a label on it

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Ha ha
Good luck. I bet the only guy that knows is the old dude that’s quietly trying to make it to retirement before the whole place goes to crap?. The young guys probably can’t tell the difference between a 3500 and a 5000lb product unless it has a label on it

Do you have them on your trailer currently?

 

[calicamper]

Do you have them on your trailer currently?

I had them on a old horse trailer no issues but they did have a shorter life than the previous ancient leaf spring trailer. My boat trailer and 4x6 are/were leaf spring. Boat trailer needed new spring gear after 9 yrs of yr around use long distance stuff. SF to San Diego yrly. SF to Colorado, SF to Washington State, lots of Sierras trips etc. Also have destroyed a leaf hitting a bad section of pavement in LA on the 1-5. If your trailer experienced you get really good at placing your trailer tires around chuck holes vs destroying axles and gear.
My race boat was also 8.5ft wide and low slung, I had to watch it on narrow lanes F150 side mirrors sat at the perfect hight for my stern rail to remove them if they crowded my lane. The worst were narrow Krail single lane construction zones I literally had 3-4 inches on each side or I was grinding fiberglass on a $50,000 replacement value race rig.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

I had them on a old horse trailer no issues but they did have a shorter life than the previous ancient leaf spring trailer. My boat trailer and 4x6 are/were leaf spring. Boat trailer needed new spring gear after 9 yrs of yr around use long distance stuff. SF to San Diego yrly. SF to Colorado, SF to Washington State, lots of Sierras trips etc. Also have destroyed a leaf hitting a bad section of pavement in LA on the 1-5. If your trailer experienced you get really good at placing your trailer tires around chuck holes vs destroying axles and gear.
My race boat was also 8.5ft wide and low slung, I had to watch it on narrow lanes F150 side mirrors sat at the perfect hight for my stern rail to remove them if they crowded my lane. The worst were narrow Krail single lane construction zones I literally had 3-4 inches on each side or I was grinding fiberglass on a $50,000 replacement value race rig.

Hoping the 3500HD s will fair better

 

[Grassland]

An even more slight derail of this, R-POD and equivalent were specced with 2900# axles on a trailer with a 3500# GVWR when I was looking at them.
So seeing axle failures on those doesn't at all surprise me, as it barely does the job on paper, assuming you loaded the trailer perfectly to get the excess weight on the tongue.
And while I know I personally usually end up tongue heavy, I'm sure plenty of people toss ******** haphazardly into their trailers.
Winnebago Mini Drop, R-POD, had this issue, and I'd hazard a guess that the Jayco Hummingbird and the other Thor knock offs were the same.

 

[calicamper]

An even more slight derail of this, R-POD and equivalent were specced with 2900# axles on a trailer with a 3500# GVWR when I was looking at them.
So seeing axle failures on those doesn't at all surprise me, as it barely does the job on paper, assuming you loaded the trailer perfectly to get the excess weight on the tongue.
And while I know I personally usually end up tongue heavy, I'm sure plenty of people toss ******** haphazardly into their trailers.
Winnebago Mini Drop, R-POD, had this issue, and I'd hazard a guess that the Jayco Hummingbird and the other Thor knock offs were the same.

Yes I noticed that also. For sure over loading the axles is definitely a factor. I have wondered what the logic might have been. Only thing that made sense was to reduce road quality abuse on the trailer ie reduce the chances of cabinets and other stuff getting knocked loose. On my race boat 1300lb in full rigged everything needed mode I actually by design removed the 3000lb leafs and put 2000lb leafs on the trailer to reduce the road abuse to the hull. Everyone that races sailboats also take trailer bunks and their locations super serious. I have seen rookies literally crush their hull simply cranking too tight on the rear cargo strap. The axle weight rating being higher than needed can really beat a trailer and its gear to pieces. So the Rpod thing could be a little hedging bets to keep the trailer from being shook to pieces.

 

[FordGuy1]

I think the design is ok but it’s highly dependent on the component quality which has obviously become degraded to the point that the design lacks durability and service life. Most of us who build stuff have seen great examples of a long time solid product become useless garbage simply due to changes in the materials and quality of the components.

You are right on. It is really a shame that durability is so lacking. What kills me is that a lot of the time, the cost would be minimal to make a mediocre product great.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

There is an upside to modern torsion axles (like some Dexter offerings) that I haven't seen discussed here: adjustable torsion arm angle. By simply sliding the hub off the axle, turning it, and re-seating it on the axle you can drastically change the angle of the torsion arms and thus clearance under the trailer. I had one of these axles installed on my last trailer and there was a pretty huge range (6-10" or so) of "lift" I could achieve in essentially minutes of work. You could lower the trailer to fit it into a tight space/garage over the winter, raise it in the summer, etc. I had mine adjusted such that there was only 1/2" of clearance for my garage, thus I could fit it in side while still having significant clearance.

I don't believe that either design is any good. I think they are cheap, and have no business on a trailer used off road. They both will fail with long term us, especially when the suspension is used where it fully cycles.

Can you clarify why you think so, and what kind of setup you'd prefer? I'm specifically interested in suspension applications on a fairly large (20-24 foot), heavy trailer (5000-7000lb) that will see rough FSRs, but no rock crawling/trails.

 

[calicamper]

There is an upside to modern torsion axles (like some Dexter offerings) that I haven't seen discussed here: adjustable torsion arm angle. By simply sliding the hub off the axle, turning it, and re-seating it on the axle you can drastically change the angle of the torsion arms and thus clearance under the trailer. I had one of these axles installed on my last trailer and there was a pretty huge range (6-10" or so) of "lift" I could achieve in essentially minutes of work. You could lower the trailer to fit it into a tight space/garage over the winter, raise it in the summer, etc. I had mine adjusted such that there was only 1/2" of clearance for my garage, thus I could fit it in side while still having significant clearance.



Can you clarify why you think so, and what kind of setup you'd prefer? I'm specifically interested in suspension applications on a fairly large (20-24 foot), heavy trailer (5000-7000lb) that will see rough FSRs, but no rock crawling/trails.

Yes some of the features are pretty good especially if it’s something used on a regular basis. Circling back to everything is a compromise. The Black Series and Opus and other “Australian” knock off swing arm suspension trailers probably tow pretty nice but that setup uses more parts and parts that were assembled in China. If you loose a bolt or tweak a part can you even find something roughly similar here to patch it up without having to fabricate a custom part?
Adjustable suspensions have extra parts too. The air bag system I like definitely has negatives! Drove 23 hours in a Yukon with a leaky rear air bag it was miserable listening to the compressor kick on every 20 minutes. Which case carrying hose, fittings etc for a road fix is definitely something I would have as a must! Vs my old leaf spring rigs, couple extra bolts, standard wheel bearing kit or on my boat I just had a complete hub mounted on the spare tire ready to go with spare castle nut and bearings etc. 12yrs lots of long fast trips one hangar bolt, one quick full hub swap. No doubt thats the only way to roll with trailers being dragged long distances. My busted leaf in LA was crazy fast to fix. Literally said Siri trailer repair shop, didn’t even stop given I could see my issue. Two phone calls and 7 miles later had a shop tossing a jack under it and swapping in a new leaf. No joke probably 50 minute delay in my trip.

 

[FordGuy1]

There is an upside to modern torsion axles (like some Dexter offerings) that I haven't seen discussed here: adjustable torsion arm angle. By simply sliding the hub off the axle, turning it, and re-seating it on the axle you can drastically change the angle of the torsion arms and thus clearance under the trailer. I had one of these axles installed on my last trailer and there was a pretty huge range (6-10" or so) of "lift" I could achieve in essentially minutes of work. You could lower the trailer to fit it into a tight space/garage over the winter, raise it in the summer, etc. I had mine adjusted such that there was only 1/2" of clearance for my garage, thus I could fit it in side while still having significant clearance.



Can you clarify why you think so, and what kind of setup you'd prefer? I'm specifically interested in suspension applications on a fairly large (20-24 foot), heavy trailer (5000-7000lb) that will see rough FSRs, but no rock crawling/trails.

I am no engineer. But, Being in the business that I am in, I am with a lot of people who have trailers, etc.. it seems like the rubber just does not hold up, or allow for enough articulation/travel. Then you add no dampers to the mix and it is just not the best solution, certainly not durable enough long term.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I am no engineer. But, Being in the business that I am in, I am with a lot of people who have trailers, etc.. it seems like the rubber just does not hold up, or allow for enough articulation/travel. Then you add no dampers to the mix and it is just not the best solution, certainly not durable enough long term.

How much travel does a trailer really need? The axle is in a single location (same really for two-axle trailers) and doesn't really need to flex much relative to another ("far away") axle, like on a vehicle. If the trailer is slanted due to lack of suspension travel... so what? As long as it's not at risk of flipping over, seems suspension travel on a trailer isn't all that necessary. But it would be nice, sure.

 

[calicamper]

How much travel does a trailer really need? The axle is in a single location (same really for two-axle trailers) and doesn't really need to flex much relative to another ("far away") axle, like on a vehicle. If the trailer is slanted due to lack of suspension travel... so what? As long as it's not at risk of flipping over, seems suspension travel on a trailer isn't all that necessary. But it would be nice, sure.

Definitely not an issue given tires aren’t driving the rig forward. Lots of trailers have been dragged out of remote places on a tree branch?

 

[mekcanix]

Interesting info here on the axles. my NoBo 16.5 (2018, well before pandemic) has the dexter axle in it and I had only this past week heard about the torsion axle failures. We have has issues with the interior rattling apart on trips to places like Tulibi and Black lake here in Manitoba. I have been looking at trailing arm suspensions for a few months now, but due to the price I wont be pulling the trigger on one unless the need arrives. not to mention I just installed a lift in my camper so I can skin the underside with some light weight metal to shield the it for a future Alaska trip

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Interesting info here on the axles. my NoBo 16.5 (2018, well before pandemic) has the dexter axle in it and I had only this past week heard about the torsion axle failures. We have has issues with the interior rattling apart on trips to places like Tulibi and Black lake here in Manitoba. I have been looking at trailing arm suspensions for a few months now, but due to the price I wont be pulling the trigger on one unless the need arrives. not to mention I just installed a lift in my camper so I can skin the underside with some light weight metal to shield the it for a future Alaska trip

I think this conversation is off topic on this "Black Series Fire Hazard thread. Maybe someone should start a thread " Do solid torsion axles beat the living sheet out of my off road trailer " ?

I am sticking with Timbren 3500HD!!!