Better expedition vehicle - Wagoneer or 90's Landcruiser

[pkelly72]

This may be a loaded question. What do you think would make a better expo.-type vehicle, a FZJ land cruiser 93-97 or a full size wagoneer? I've previously owned a 94 LC and I was happy with it but I'm now in the market for another expo type vehicle. Here's what I'm looking for:

1. Reliability
2. After market support
3. user friendly to work on and trouble shoot
4. Capable of long distance travel and moderate trails.

Let me know what you think.

 

[Holland]

Wagoneer is more comparable to a 60 series cruiser. I'm a cruiser fan myself but having no experience with either.

 

[timgr]

The last Grand Wagoneer was built in 1991. The best ones are now collectible, and go for wild prices. By 1991, the drive train was very dated. Point by point ... reliable? the major components are very reliable, but the supporting systems are not. Very little aftermarket support. Yes, they are easy to work on and not complicated. They are nice driving cars, and overachievers on the trail, with the right driver.

But if you weren't in love with the GW look, or if you were and could not afford a beautiful one, maybe an WJ Overland would be a better choice.

 

[timgr]

Another comment about the Grand Wagoneer.

It seems the most frustrating repair issue for owners is the emissions gear. The GW was carbureted to the very end; this has a few important effects. 1) The emissions gear is almost entirely vacuum modulated, so the vacuum plumbing is very complicated. There are a lot of mysterious check valves and other devices in the emissions plumbing, and parts availabiity for this stuff is poor. 2) The AMC 360 was a powerful engine in the '70s, but by the '90s it was a dated design. Combine this with the lack of even the most rudimentary EFI, the increasingly stringent emissions requirements, and the engine becomes both rather anemic for its displacement and not very economical.

However, there is a Howell TBI kit for this application that is 50 states legal, so that's a very appealing option for people that want to drive these cars. It likely would not detract from the collector value ... most owners that are handy could install this kit. It eliminates a lot of the vacuum plumbing. Not a very sophisticated kit though - controls fuel only, so essentially an electronic carburetor. Nonetheless, a big improvement.

 

[uzj100]

The Land Cruiser is the better platform for this application. The Wagoneer was not built for the extremes the Land Cruiser can handle. NATO and militaries us Land Cruisers for a reason. They are overbuilt.

80 series land cruiser built and offered in the USA from 1991 to 1997.

1. Reliability - Land Cruiser
2. After market support - Land Cruiser
3. user friendly to work on and trouble shoot - Check out www.ih8mud.com
4. Capable of long distance travel and moderate trails. - Can do most trails with just a tire change. Front and rear diff locks were available as an option.

 

[pkelly72]

I've owned a 94 LC with supercharger, air locker f&r, 4.88's bumpers, sliders...you name it. Then I owned a 99 LC with a rear locker 33's bumpers F/R sliders, diff drop, armor...etc

The 94 was a slug even with the SC, the 99 was much quicker but less durable on the trail. The 80 series headgasket is a PITA. The 100 series lacked the solid f axle and was too pretty to abuse on the trail. I might find my way back into an 80 series but I always liked the Wagoneers. This is why I asked. I can find decent Wagoneers for about $3k which is cheaper than I can find an 80. I'm on the fence and I'm not toyota loyalist or necessarily a fanboy of the Landcruiser. This is why I asked.

 

[bob91yj]

I'm a die hard Jeep guy, I'd still pick the LC over the Waggy.

 

[BushHead]

I just have to chime in here, I have a waggy and love it, but I wouldn't want to go anywhere in it. It breaks down pretty much every trip out football games, grocery store, you name it. The only one who likes it better than me is my friend who owns the tow truck. Over on ifsja forums everyone agrees the waggy's are down more than they're up.


Matt

 

[pkelly72]

I think I'll be back in a Land Cruiser.

I just have to chime in here, I have a waggy and love it, but I wouldn't want to go anywhere in it. It breaks down pretty much every trip out football games, grocery store, you name it. The only one who likes it better than me is my friend who owns the tow truck. Over on ifsja forums everyone agrees the waggy's are down more than they're up.


Matt

 

[Septu]

I just have to chime in here, I have a waggy and love it, but I wouldn't want to go anywhere in it. It breaks down pretty much every trip out football games, grocery store, you name it. The only one who likes it better than me is my friend who owns the tow truck. Over on ifsja forums everyone agrees the waggy's are down more than they're up.


Matt

Knowing very little of these vehicles... is this just different things failing because the vehicle is old? I mean if you wanted (and had the time/money) could you make it as reliable as a newer vehicle?

 

[BushHead]

Being old is part of it, the older one's were more of the workhorse's, mines a 90 and the vacuum stuff was just a bad idea. Most prefer just to change out the entire drivetrain, theres nothing wrong with the 360 per se, but the egr stuff kills it and taking it off can disable your 4wd (everything is controlled by that vacuum system) I love the way they look and I love mine but I'll steal a quote from the Dr. who has a wonderful build thread on here for his waggy, "with the ability to fix things on the side of the road comes the need to fix things on the side of the road" (from my memory).

Matt

oh, and I guess to answer your question, yes you could build it, with time and money, as much time and money as you want to spend...lol

 

[4D55 Performance]

I have owned a both of these vehicles and they are very different. It is tough to say one is better than the other because they both do so many great things and they both would make great expedition vehicles, but for different reasons. I have owned two 1996 LX450's and I owned a 1979 (i think) Wagoneer. The Jeep had lots of power and it is hard to argue power. It had a system called quadratrac which is like a poor mans locking differential. It was functional and great offroad. It was truly the first luxury SUV. The LX450's I had were both good vehicles as well but they lacked power. Power was not even adequate when they upgrades to the 4.5L. I also had issues with headgaskets and transmissions in both LX450s. The tranny is pretty poor when compared to there competitors like the Montero, Wagoneer and G-wagon. Leg room in the rear was very limited in the LX450, it felt like a compact car in the middle row.The other thing that irritated me was the lack of cup holders in the LX450. Who builds a 60K dollar SUV and then doesn't put in any true cup holders.

With all this being said I would still probably pick the LX450 over the Wagoneer because it is more versatile, has better handling, it's fuel injected, and most importantly it will be easier to find a quality vehicle.

 

[squeezer]

I have owned both...

Have owned a Quadra-Trac Wagoneer as well as a BJ60, FJ60, FJ62, FZJ80 and currently daily drive a UZJ100.

I would say the FSJ is closest to the FJ60 in "feel" but is not even close to reliability... If the choice was between buying a FSJ or a FJ60 to do a LS1 swap one could debate both sides. If its between a stockish (no engine swap) FSJ and an FZJ80 to build/wheel/drive there is no debate.