Best value Suburban as an all arounder

[TroopThrowback]

Oh snap mines a 2500 so the diff is different, right?


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[justcuz]

Yes and I don't know if any AWD 9.25 front axles were made in AWD. Might be worth checking into the newer cast iron housing HD front ends, maybe GM got smart and eliminated the right axle disconnect on the HD's.

What gears are in your Suburban GT4 (3.73) or GT5 (4.10)?

 

[unabashedpraise]

Wow, you guys really rock on the info! So glad to not have to argue the whole "did you use the search button" thing...

The GMT800s are split 2000-2002 and 2003-2006, get the latter if you want more electronic gadgets, driver info, steeering wheel controls, zone air control and heated seats (LT and Z71). There is a step up in the pricing for the latter. The drivetrains are very much the same, albeit with an all electronic throttle. The first half of the series still have a direct cable from pedal to throttle.

There's an array of upgraded components on the Z71 1500, but the chassis are much the same. The 2500 and up and a much more substantial chassis, running gear etc, the 4L80E trans (instead of 4L60E). If you plan some heavy hauling or towing use, go with the 2500 and up.

we've got one in each series, my '02 Sub wtih 125k mi, her '05 Tahoe with 165k mi. Previously we had a '99 Tahoe, at about 85k at trade-in. They've all been solid performers, all towed boats, camper trailers, UHaul tandem axle enclosed trailers. All hauled lots of people and gear around SoCal from the beaches to the ski resorts. They've done everything we've asked. I bought my '02 with 116k mi on it 17mos ago for $6k after a thorough looking over and carfax review and a test drive. I'm a pretty good mechanic and do pretty much all teh work I can that doesn't take very expensive tools. I was sanguine about buying the '02 with such mileage, based on my experiences. 6k mi later, flogging it around SoCal, it's still doing quite well.

There are a few common maintenance issues in the these older vehicles, see my 'Hey Vortec Guys' topic for some basic info.

We've got many Sub owners here, many with far better mechanical skills / experience than me, I haven't seen anyone fault them for any sort of serious mechanical shortcomings, when used within a reasonable manner for what they are - high capacity transports and moderate haulers.

The upgrade to all the electronic gadgets seems good to me, I have most of them in my limited ZJ. Of course, I've learned to re-solder many circuits... NO heavy hauling. I am still in the middle of a camping trailer build, but would rather not have to use it if I have the burb and it's cavernous storage area. Looking to upgrade from the ZJ because of another kid inbound, but realize that I may still want the trailer for longer trips. With the ZJ and two kids, I was already at the max and needed the trailer just to have enough "stuff".

125k is high mileage? The ZJ has over 204k, and I sold a corolla last year with over 425k. I understand what you mean, the mileage just makes me leery of the owners' treatment more than the actual miles put on.

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OK, so you probably know that the 98-99 would be the older (GMT-400) series. Those had 5.7 V8s (which I think is just an EFI or maybe TBI version of the venerable 350 Chevy) in the 1500 models, I think the 2500's came with either the 5.7 or the 7.4 (AKA 454) and for a while they were available with a diesel but I think that had been dropped by 1999.
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The 2000-2006 would be the GMT-800, which was pretty much new from the ground up (though AFAIK they used the same 4L60 and 4L80 transmissions.) Those had the 5.3 Vortec on the 1500's and the 2500's had either the 6.0 Vortec or the 8.1. There was no diesel option on Suburbans of this generation. The 5.3 seems to be a pretty reliable and long lasting motor, at least I see a lot of them around (I've only been in the GMT-800 "club" since December so I can't really speak to longevity.)
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As far as model year updates go, when I was shopping for mine I found out that 2004 was the year that the 1500's got Hydroboost brakes, in the 2000 - 2003 years I think they may have been an option but starting in 2004 they were standard (the 2500's always had hydroboost as I understand it.) For that reason when I went shopping I was specifically looking for 2004 and up, even though as others have said, they are notably more expensive on the used market.
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Z71: The Z71 was an option package that included skid plates, different wheels (I call them "snowflakes") a higher, heavier rear suspension (thicker and longer springs), a thicker plastic roof rack and probably a few other things. Z71's seem to sit about an inch or so higher than LT, LS and base models.

From what I saw on the used market, Z71's tended to be "loaded" with options, typically including leather seats, sunroof, 2nd row captains chairs (i.e. twin buckets, not a bench.) They often (but not always) had the rear seat DVD. I specifically did NOT want either a sunroof or the 2nd row buckets so I ended up with an LT which is the 2nd highest level (I believe there were four trim levels: Base model, sometimes called WT for "work truck", LS, LT and Z71.
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To my knowledge, the Z71 package was only offered on the 1500 models, at least I've never seen a Z71 2500.
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Some people say all Z71's have the G80 rear locker but my understanding is that the locker was not specifically linked to any particular package - some trucks have it, some don't. My LT does (in fact, my LT has pretty much every option available except the sunroof, 2nd row buckets and rear-seat DVD entertainment system.)
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The 1500 models have a four link rear suspension with coil springs, while the 2500's have leaf springs. The other big difference is the fuel tank size, the 1500 gets a 31 gallon tank while the 2500 has 37.
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When you are shopping, look in the glove box for a white sticker with a bunch of 3 letter/number codes. These are the RPO build codes for the truck, you can figure out exactly what the truck is equipped with from this sticker, including what axle ratio it has, whether it has the locker, etc.
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2000-2004 models could come with either the rear liftgate or the cargo doors, AKA "Barn doors." Barn doors were not an option starting in 2005. From my seat-of-the-pants observation, 2500's seem more likely to have barn doors than 1500's but that is just a guess, really. Not sure what the ratio of barn doors to liftgate is but, again, my off-the-cuff guess would be about 1 barn door truck for every 7 or 8 liftgate trucks, IOW, the liftgate is much more common.
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One final note, if you are shopping for Suburbans, don't skip the Suburban's doppelganger, the GMC Yukon XL (XL = "extra Large" - to distinguish it from the Yukon which is a GMC's version of Chevy's Tahoe.) The thing you have to watch for with Yukons is whether or not they are "Denali" models. The Denali has been described to me as a Cadillac Escalade for people who don't want the stigma of an Escalade - it has the same drivetrain as the Escalade including the 6.0 V8 and the 4wd models are actually non-switchable AWD with no low range. Denali models tend to be loaded up with pretty much every option available (though oddly enough I've seen a few for sale that had cloth seats - I would have thought all Denali's had leather.)
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The Non-Denali Yukon XL's are pretty much like Suburbans, they had the 5.3 V8 in the 1500 models and the 6.0 or 8.1 in the 2500.

So much info! Working backwards, I am not against the GMC Yukon XL at all. In fact I was reading that the XL has the better oem rear diff and the locker on all of them?? The internet doesn't lie...
Do not want a Denali. I want a low range transfer case. The manual lever in the earlier GMT400 is appealing. Was also considering the 1500 for comfort with the 4 link coil susp. My jeep rides great with it. However, I was not aware that the 2500 had a 37 gallon tank. Same range I wonder? Not sure I can justify the 8.1.

I have never seen a 2500 Z71. Did the 2500 already have all the "off road" upgrades the Z71 offered? Skids and such?

I think a 1500 would probably be adequate. But who is usually happy with adequate? Honestly, the 2500's look so, so good! I am leaning to the 2004 for the hyrdoboost as well. However, any decently priced, well kept burb is up for grabs. Right now prices are all over the place. A 99 1500 with 111k of $6500 vs a 04 1500 with 230k, all options, for $4000.


This was when I fell in love with the suburban. However, I need more safety features for the family than the older models since it will also replace my ZJ and my DD.

 

[unabashedpraise]

As the original poster of the thread I guess I should update. After considering pretty much every vehicle option out there and the various forms of Suburbans I came down a 2004 2500. I spent about 5 months searching for the right one, a Texas truck that had never seen snow or salt and was well cared for. I went for the 2500 primarily for the perceived notion of added durability. Bigger frame, brakes, axles, engines, and transmission were the big things. I do tow a camper but honestly the 1500 would have towed it fine too. Time will tell if going the 2500 route bought me more long term durability or not. I have gone through a bunch of little things on it trying to somewhat baseline the truck and am hoping I don't have too many more little things to address for awhile. The 2003+ did come with auto climate control which is supposedly troublesome but they also came with manual dual zone like mine. I searched out and found a 6.0 with 4.10's and run 285's on it with Bilstein 5100's which help quite a bit with smoothing out the stiffer ride.

We love the truck and it eats up highway miles like nobody's business. Most comfortable place to spend all day behind the wheel that I have owned.

If I had the $ and the choice, this is almost the exact choice I would make. Looks great!

 

[unabashedpraise]

Also, has anyone had any experience with railroad suburbans? I'm have trouble finding out what kind of mods were done to them. They are usually early 2000's. I have seen a couple for sale in the last two weeks.

 

[rayra]

whichever you're looking at, just stay the hell away from the FLEX engines, mid-2000s. Lot of trouble with excessive ring / cylinder wall wear and blow-by. Or get one cheap and plan to drop a new short block in it and have the Flex program deleted.

We've done regional getaway trips with 5-6 people and their stuff for vacations and longer road trips with 4 adults, in good comfort. We've always had the LT/Z71 packages with their 2nd row buckets and that's worked nice for us. Works nice with kids that can't quit pestering each other too. And the buckets make for easier access to the 3rd row seats, if you keep them in.
That's another mid-series change as well, 00-02 are a full bench and it's a heavy awkward mother to remove or re-install. 03-06 has two seats that touch like a bench. They're also a high theft target here in L.A., so they're 'garage furniture' unless we need them in the vehicle.
The vehicles are also configured so you can leave the 3rd row seats in but folded double and you can rig the cargo screen to cover the seats too.

Me earlier mileage statements were more in the vein of 'still going strong and (mostly) solid' at a 100k+ miles. These drivetrains are certainly a big improvement in longevity and reliability over earlier generations. I mean I'm old enough to remember when 100k mi on a vehicle was about all you could expect from a drivetrain.

I had to look far afield to find a good 4wd GMT800 in the L.A. area, but 2wd mom-taxis were everywhere. That said, prices were still quite reasonable. Again given the drivetrains, I think there are some real values to be had in these vehicles in the mid-2000 model years. Especially for their capabilities and reliability and relative inexpensive repair costs (especially if you can do your own work).

There are some steep price increments as you approach the newer model years in the Used market. And the rock bottom seems to be around $3k for the late 90s, in various states of wear and tear.

 

[justcuz]

No idea about railroad Suburbans. The railroad has two kinds of vehicles, rail repair and crew transport, from what I understand.
Rail repair will have train trucks installed front and rear so they can be driven on the tracks.
Crew transport are just regular vehicles to transport and pick up crews if they time out on a run.

Either way, don't expect fancy or pretty, the railroads use their vehicles for work.
Should be priced cheap enough and probably 3/4 ton Suburban too. I've personally never seen any 1/2 ton railroad vehicles.

 

[Martinjmpr]

whichever you're looking at, just stay the hell away from the FLEX engines, mid-2000s. Lot of trouble with excessive ring / cylinder wall wear and blow-by. Or get one cheap and plan to drop a new short block in it and have the Flex program deleted.

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I think you mean AFM - Active Fuel Management, the engine that could shut down 4 of its cylinders while cruising. You are correct, the early versions of this engine were notorious for having excess oil consumption problems (among others.) "FLEX" makes it sound like you mean "Flex Fuel" which of course all Suburbans and Tahoes starting in 2002 or so were (Flex Fuel, i.e. capable of running on regular unleaded gas or E-85 ethanol blend.) Avalanche's got FFV (Flex Fuel Vehicle) certified in 2005.
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AFM started with the GMT-900 models, that is, 2007+. My understanding is that the first year saw the most problems which is why I stayed away from any '07 models when I was shopping for trucks. I have heard that most of the AFM problems were sorted out by 2009 or so (which was also the first year of the 6 speed auto transmission.)

 

[Martinjmpr]

No idea about railroad Suburbans.

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I wonder if he's referring to the vehicles that seem to be driven by safety inspectors and the like? I do see a lot of them around my neighborhood since we have two major rail lines that run right by and also the commuter light rail. The vehicles that our inspectors use, though, all seem to be Ford Expedition EL's (the stretched Expedition), not Suburbans.
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I can't remember the name of the company off the top of my head - something"Berger" I think.

 

[justcuz]

My buddy who works for the railroad said they recently went to a private contractor for crew transport.
Maybe that is the company your seeing driving the Expeditions around.

 

[rayra]

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I think you mean AFM - Active Fuel Management, the engine that could shut down 4 of its cylinders while cruising. You are correct, the early versions of this engine were notorious for having excess oil consumption problems (among others.) "FLEX" makes it sound like you mean "Flex Fuel" which of course all Suburbans and Tahoes starting in 2002 or so were (Flex Fuel, i.e. capable of running on regular unleaded gas or E-85 ethanol blend.) Avalanche's got FFV (Flex Fuel Vehicle) certified in 2005.
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AFM started with the GMT-900 models, that is, 2007+. My understanding is that the first year saw the most problems which is why I stayed away from any '07 models when I was shopping for trucks. I have heard that most of the AFM problems were sorted out by 2009 or so (which was also the first year of the 6 speed auto transmission.)

I said 'Flex' because I meant 'Flex', which is what it was called, from the 2002 model year into early 2007. Engine code 'Z' is specifically an E85-rated engine and fuel system. And it's (also) a 5.3L. The standard motor, 5.3L, engine code 'T' is not specifically rated to withstand ethanol-adulterated fuel. But my 'T' 5.3L '02 and 'T' '05 seem to be doing so well enough with it, for a combined 290,000mi.

AFM was the shutting down of half the fuel injectors at cruising speeds, in the -900 vehicles, 2007-on, which I poorly conflated with the FLEX. The first couple years of those had terrible cylinder wear problems. But I've never read if that was due to the piston ring sourcing or other component design, or if it was the byproduct of the rings freely floating around sans combustion pressures, resulting in the out-of-round cylinder bore problems that were reported.

 

[upcruiser]

The question posed was what is the best Suburban..... A few days ago I spotted the answer driving through Provo, UT..... Because more is always better....

 

[rayra]

lol 'when a normal Suburban just doesn't seat enough people'.

and the tires are nice and dirty too.

eta oooh you could easily fit another 25gal of fuel or more under there, too.

 

[Martinjmpr]

lol 'when a normal Suburban just doesn't seat enough people'.

and the tires are nice and dirty too.

eta oooh you could easily fit another 25gal of fuel or more under there, too.

I see your 6 doors and raise you 4....
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I remember seeing these old "Airport limos" back in the 70's. :elkgrin:

 

[unabashedpraise]

Old thread revived.

Just purchased a 1999 Chevy Suburban LT, 5.7.
Needs a good cleaning, has 204k on the clock, but seemed like a good price at a reduced $2500. Time will tell.
My question is, what is the best forum to use for the 96-99 specific models? Already tired of shifting through unnecessary info on some websites.

Thanks!