Best value Suburban as an all arounder

The gas Excursions I have seen are worth half of a diesel or less. You could buy a gasser and put a diesel in it cheaper than buying a used diesel vehicle. Plus you could install a better diesel than the factory one!

I actually researched that too just before buying my burb. The excursion guys all bemoan the electrics, which are completely different on the gas and diesel versions, requiring complete harnesses rerun. Also motor mounts, cross members, and then the whole emissions fiasco required by Ca made it all totally a burden I wasn't ready to tackle.




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justcuz

Explorer
How about a 6.0 GM gas engine with a 6 speed automatic and a NP 241 with Rubicon 4-1 low range gears in an Excursion?
GM was smart and CARB certified the 5.3 ERod LS engine, you can install them in anything in California.
How many smog guys know the difference between a 5.3 and 6.0?
I know a guy who just installed a 5.3 in a 86 Bronco, he says the power and mileage made a believer out of him.
If he did not have a buyer for the 351, he says he'd throw rocks at it!
 
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unabashedpraise

Adventurer
Resurrecting a sleeping thread to seek counsel from the burb gurus. What's the difference between the 1/2 ton, 1/2 ton z71, and the 2500? Did they make a 2500 z71?

Mainly looking at 98-99 (cheaper), 2002-03 (interior and electronics updated, supposedly better front diff)

Enjoyed the knowledge in this thread. Didn't feel like I was reading about a bunch of teenagers with half cocked ideas on how things are done.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
The GMT800s are split 2000-2002 and 2003-2006, get the latter if you want more electronic gadgets, driver info, steeering wheel controls, zone air control and heated seats (LT and Z71). There is a step up in the pricing for the latter. The drivetrains are very much the same, albeit with an all electronic throttle. The first half of the series still have a direct cable from pedal to throttle.

There's an array of upgraded components on the Z71 1500, but the chassis are much the same. The 2500 and up and a much more substantial chassis, running gear etc, the 4L80E trans (instead of 4L60E). If you plan some heavy hauling or towing use, go with the 2500 and up.

we've got one in each series, my '02 Sub wtih 125k mi, her '05 Tahoe with 165k mi. Previously we had a '99 Tahoe, at about 85k at trade-in. They've all been solid performers, all towed boats, camper trailers, UHaul tandem axle enclosed trailers. All hauled lots of people and gear around SoCal from the beaches to the ski resorts. They've done everything we've asked. I bought my '02 with 116k mi on it 17mos ago for $6k after a thorough looking over and carfax review and a test drive. I'm a pretty good mechanic and do pretty much all teh work I can that doesn't take very expensive tools. I was sanguine about buying the '02 with such mileage, based on my experiences. 6k mi later, flogging it around SoCal, it's still doing quite well.

There are a few common maintenance issues in the these older vehicles, see my 'Hey Vortec Guys' topic for some basic info.

We've got many Sub owners here, many with far better mechanical skills / experience than me, I haven't seen anyone fault them for any sort of serious mechanical shortcomings, when used within a reasonable manner for what they are - high capacity transports and moderate haulers.
 
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I'm enjoying my 2006 2500LT. 6.0 4L80E

We've gotten some late snowfall here in the Sierra Nevada so we've been exploring a bit.

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upcruiser

Perpetual Transient
As the original poster of the thread I guess I should update. After considering pretty much every vehicle option out there and the various forms of Suburbans I came down a 2004 2500. I spent about 5 months searching for the right one, a Texas truck that had never seen snow or salt and was well cared for. I went for the 2500 primarily for the perceived notion of added durability. Bigger frame, brakes, axles, engines, and transmission were the big things. I do tow a camper but honestly the 1500 would have towed it fine too. Time will tell if going the 2500 route bought me more long term durability or not. I have gone through a bunch of little things on it trying to somewhat baseline the truck and am hoping I don't have too many more little things to address for awhile. The 2003+ did come with auto climate control which is supposedly troublesome but they also came with manual dual zone like mine. I searched out and found a 6.0 with 4.10's and run 285's on it with Bilstein 5100's which help quite a bit with smoothing out the stiffer ride.

We love the truck and it eats up highway miles like nobody's business. Most comfortable place to spend all day behind the wheel that I have owned.

 
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Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Resurrecting a sleeping thread to seek counsel from the burb gurus. What's the difference between the 1/2 ton, 1/2 ton z71, and the 2500? Did they make a 2500 z71?

Mainly looking at 98-99 (cheaper), 2002-03 (interior and electronics updated, supposedly better front diff)

Enjoyed the knowledge in this thread. Didn't feel like I was reading about a bunch of teenagers with half cocked ideas on how things are done.
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OK, so you probably know that the 98-99 would be the older (GMT-400) series. Those had 5.7 V8s (which I think is just an EFI or maybe TBI version of the venerable 350 Chevy) in the 1500 models, I think the 2500's came with either the 5.7 or the 7.4 (AKA 454) and for a while they were available with a diesel but I think that had been dropped by 1999.
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The 2000-2006 would be the GMT-800, which was pretty much new from the ground up (though AFAIK they used the same 4L60 and 4L80 transmissions.) Those had the 5.3 Vortec on the 1500's and the 2500's had either the 6.0 Vortec or the 8.1. There was no diesel option on Suburbans of this generation. The 5.3 seems to be a pretty reliable and long lasting motor, at least I see a lot of them around (I've only been in the GMT-800 "club" since December so I can't really speak to longevity.)
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As far as model year updates go, when I was shopping for mine I found out that 2004 was the year that the 1500's got Hydroboost brakes, in the 2000 - 2003 years I think they may have been an option but starting in 2004 they were standard (the 2500's always had hydroboost as I understand it.) For that reason when I went shopping I was specifically looking for 2004 and up, even though as others have said, they are notably more expensive on the used market.
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Z71: The Z71 was an option package that included skid plates, different wheels (I call them "snowflakes") a higher, heavier rear suspension (thicker and longer springs), a thicker plastic roof rack and probably a few other things. Z71's seem to sit about an inch or so higher than LT, LS and base models.

From what I saw on the used market, Z71's tended to be "loaded" with options, typically including leather seats, sunroof, 2nd row captains chairs (i.e. twin buckets, not a bench.) They often (but not always) had the rear seat DVD. I specifically did NOT want either a sunroof or the 2nd row buckets so I ended up with an LT which is the 2nd highest level (I believe there were four trim levels: Base model, sometimes called WT for "work truck", LS, LT and Z71.
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To my knowledge, the Z71 package was only offered on the 1500 models, at least I've never seen a Z71 2500.
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Some people say all Z71's have the G80 rear locker but my understanding is that the locker was not specifically linked to any particular package - some trucks have it, some don't. My LT does (in fact, my LT has pretty much every option available except the sunroof, 2nd row buckets and rear-seat DVD entertainment system.)
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The 1500 models have a four link rear suspension with coil springs, while the 2500's have leaf springs. The other big difference is the fuel tank size, the 1500 gets a 31 gallon tank while the 2500 has 37.
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When you are shopping, look in the glove box for a white sticker with a bunch of 3 letter/number codes. These are the RPO build codes for the truck, you can figure out exactly what the truck is equipped with from this sticker, including what axle ratio it has, whether it has the locker, etc.
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2000-2004 models could come with either the rear liftgate or the cargo doors, AKA "Barn doors." Barn doors were not an option starting in 2005. From my seat-of-the-pants observation, 2500's seem more likely to have barn doors than 1500's but that is just a guess, really. Not sure what the ratio of barn doors to liftgate is but, again, my off-the-cuff guess would be about 1 barn door truck for every 7 or 8 liftgate trucks, IOW, the liftgate is much more common.
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One final note, if you are shopping for Suburbans, don't skip the Suburban's doppelganger, the GMC Yukon XL (XL = "extra Large" - to distinguish it from the Yukon which is a GMC's version of Chevy's Tahoe.) The thing you have to watch for with Yukons is whether or not they are "Denali" models. The Denali has been described to me as a Cadillac Escalade for people who don't want the stigma of an Escalade - it has the same drivetrain as the Escalade including the 6.0 V8 and the 4wd models are actually non-switchable AWD with no low range. Denali models tend to be loaded up with pretty much every option available (though oddly enough I've seen a few for sale that had cloth seats - I would have thought all Denali's had leather.)
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The Non-Denali Yukon XL's are pretty much like Suburbans, they had the 5.3 V8 in the 1500 models and the 6.0 or 8.1 in the 2500.
 
Very good primer! You just about distilled the entire collective knowledge of this thread into a single post.

One question for all you with experience with these, I've got some pretty annoying rear leaks, that don't seem to be from the same place. I've chased one that I suspect is the roof rack mounting holes, but now I think the third taillight seal is my new culprit. What else can leak and how do I reseal that tail light?


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Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Here is a forum that is a bit "buggy" (i.e. has a lot of pop ups and tends to freeze up, at least when using IE) but has lots of good info:
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http://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/
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The forum is divided by generations so there is a whole sub-board on the GMT-800, also called "NBS" (New Body Style) trucks. The site overall is geared more towards "street trucks" rolling on 22" wheels and such, but there is lots of good info there. I was able to find a lot of the information I needed at that site.
 

justcuz

Explorer
The Denali's are good for taking the right front axle out of them and eliminating your front axle disconnect.:)
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
The Z71 racks are steel C-channel with plastic mounting shoes and end fairings. And the aerodynamic crossbars are metal too.

The 3rd taillight just need a new wiring grommet or whole light assembly. The sunroofs work fine, but you need to keep their drains open. We've had zero problems with ours in Socal, the last 17yrs. The rack mounts should [NOT] be leaking, unless they've been fiddled with. Simply disassemble it all, clean everything and put a dab of 100% silicone caulk at the bolt locations / penetrations when you reassemble things. No need to overtighten and cause other trouble.
The only other penetrations I can think of are the wiring between body and rear hatch and the rear defogger. Grommet / seal high on the right rear, above the main liftgate seal. Clean / lube / caulk. It's a simple matter all around to stop anything leaking.
 
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Thank you! I'll look for the grommet for the third taillight. It just isn't as pliable as it seems it ought to be anymore.


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justcuz

Explorer
Please elaborate!

Since the Denali is an all wheel drive, there is no disconnect on the right front axle. Bolts right on to a 8.25 1500 differential and eliminates one more source of trouble.

The same thing can be done with S10's and Blazers by using a Bravada axle.

I don't know if Astro van stuff bolts into an S10 or Blazer, but they are AWD too. I need to look at the later 6 lug Astro vans and see what running gear they use.
 

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