Best soft shackles made in the USA?

Alloy

Well-known member
Hello Alloy:

Thanks for the informative reply. The failure of soft shackles via creeping of bury splice without lock stitching you describe seems odd to me. In soft shackles that I’ve made the integrity of the structure is independent of the bury. For the soft shackle eye to fail (other than breaking the line) the knot (whichever type is used) would have to untie. If one uses a button knot then the ends of the line are buried back into the shackle to increase the diameter of the shackle where the eye cinches down when loaded. That increased diameter increased the loaded strength of the shackle by increasing the bend radius of the line in the eye so it won’t break until the loads get extreme. But if the bury of the ends of line creeps so the ends come out of the line, the knot remains and the eye would still function fine, but with less ultimate strength (although still stronger than a single length of the line used). With some other knots then ends “after“ the knot are trimmed and there is no end bury in the shackle.

I’m assuming that the structure of the shackles that failed on you must be one I’m not familiar with - definitely possible as I’m no expert. I’d like to learn that structure If possible. Any chance of a link to the vendor or image of the shackles? I don’t doubt at all that the failure happened, I’m just curious about the structure that allowed the failure.

Howard
Working on getting pictures.
 

Alloy

Well-known member
Hello Alloy:

Thanks for the informative reply. The failure of soft shackles via creeping of bury splice without lock stitching you describe seems odd to me. In soft shackles that I’ve made the integrity of the structure is independent of the bury. For the soft shackle eye to fail (other than breaking the line) the knot (whichever type is used) would have to untie. If one uses a button knot then the ends of the line are buried back into the shackle to increase the diameter of the shackle where the eye cinches down when loaded. That increased diameter increased the loaded strength of the shackle by increasing the bend radius of the line in the eye so it won’t break until the loads get extreme. But if the bury of the ends of line creeps so the ends come out of the line, the knot remains and the eye would still function fine, but with less ultimate strength (although still stronger than a single length of the line used). With some other knots then ends “after“ the knot are trimmed and there is no end bury in the shackle.

I’m assuming that the structure of the shackles that failed on you must be one I’m not familiar with - definitely possible as I’m no expert. I’d like to learn that structure If possible. Any chance of a link to the vendor or image of the shackles? I don’t doubt at all that the failure happened, I’m just curious about the structure that allowed the failure.

Howard
I went back to the rope shop and got some pictures. From what I understand they were buying from another mfg. that hasn't failed but their biggest customer wanted everything from the same mfg. That's where things started coming apart :)

USB cord is for size relation

It's an eye slice with the tails tied. Line is soft, knot isn't tight and a hot knife was use to cut the tails (into) off.
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20220309_114844[1].jpg



It seems like the casing is too long for the tail. Under (hand) tension with the eye around the knot just the first couple inches of the casing stretches out and grabs the tail. In this picture I milked the eye down and this is how small it got.
20220309_123100[1].jpg
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I went back to the rope shop and got some pictures. From what I understand they were buying from another mfg. that hasn't failed but their biggest customer wanted everything from the same mfg. That's where things started coming apart :)

It's an eye slice with the tails tied. Line is soft, knot isn't tight and a hot knife was use to cut the tails (into) off.

It seems like the casing is too long for the tail. Under (hand) tension with the eye around the knot just the first couple inches of the casing stretches out and grabs the tail. In this picture I milked the eye down and this is how small it got.
Yikes, that seems like a very poor example of a soft shackle.

The single leg design often causes uneven loading of each leg......and uneven wear on the covering layer.

I much prefer the twin leg design with the tails independently burried in each leg. That also increases the working diameter for the noose.
 

Howard70

Adventurer
I went back to the rope shop and got some pictures. From what I understand they were buying from another mfg. that hasn't failed but their biggest customer wanted everything from the same mfg. That's where things started coming apart :)

USB cord is for size relation

It's an eye slice with the tails tied. Line is soft, knot isn't tight and a hot knife was use to cut the tails (into) off.

It seems like the casing is too long for the tail. Under (hand) tension with the eye around the knot just the first couple inches of the casing stretches out and grabs the tail. In this picture I milked the eye down and this is how small it got.
Hello Alloy:

As @Metcalf mentions - that seems like a poor example of a soft shackle. Assuming whoever tied that was attempting to construct a “simple” or “standard” soft shackle they failed to include several important steps:

1. After forming the eye by passing half the length of line (the “inner”) through the other (the “outer”) and establishing the correct minimum size of the eye, they should have passed the outer through the inner (similar to, but not the same as, a brummel) leaving two equal lengths to tie the knot. That step would have prevented the odd bulge below the knot in your first image.

2. Once they completed the knot they should have left the tails considerably longer than they did. This is a pretty common mistake in constructing soft shackles because folks wish to leave a shackle with a “clean” appearing knot (no tails hanging out) so they trim the tails close to the knot, melt what remains and smear it into the knot. Thus it looks nice but all that keeps the knot from eventually untying is the adhesion of the melted material with fiber strands of the knot. Better to have tails that one can monitor to see if the knot’s integrity remains. But even better is shifting to the button knot style shackle with the tails buried back in the strands.

Personally, I would not purchase shackles from that manufacturer or vendor again!

Howard
 

Softshackleguy

New member
Brummel vs lock stitching - I went over this on a sailing forum. Basically they said with a brummel lock (if that is what we are referring to) you are not really relying on the strength of the entire rope, rather a few strands that you crisscross. The ends still get buried, but back into itself and not the opposing end. I started marketing both since the brummel lock is popular in hammock world and much quicker. Sailing community buy the lock stitched ones I make.

Yea, that looks like a diamond knot shackle with it's ends melted, then the tension pulled it through. I hate melting dyneema. I made a piece for sailing that required a diamond knot. I left the ends long and whipped it so if they ever wanted to melt it themselves, they can.

Setting the eye - I have specs I follow when making each shackle size. I tie the button knot so I pass the eye through a finished shackle for the correct size. Set it so there is enough slack for both legs to be taut.

The yellow is the brummel lock. The green is S pattern lock stitching. These were recent orders I finished. Showing 7/16, 5/16, 3/16, and 7/64, all the last pic with the red 50' hank of 7/64.

The last pic shows low friction rings with diamond knot, with whipped ends vs melted.
20220223_115124.jpg20220223_113823.jpg
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Alloy

Well-known member
Anyone recommend nylon thimbles for the eyes in Dynmeema.

I bought some stainless thimbles but the inside that touches the rope has the casting finsh which will wear the Dyneema.
 

Howard70

Adventurer
Anyone recommend nylon thimbles for the eyes in Dynmeema.

I bought some stainless thimbles but the inside that touches the rope has the casting finsh which will wear the Dyneema.
We shifted over to simple eye splices without thimbles on our Amsteel Blue winch lines. Usually pass the line that forms the eye through one or two sections of tubular webbing for a chafe guard and go with a 4 or 5" long eye. Works great for us (winches on an EarthCruiser and a Tacoma).

Howard
 

WSS

Rock Stacker
We shifted over to simple eye splices without thimbles on our Amsteel Blue winch lines. Usually pass the line that forms the eye through one or two sections of tubular webbing for a chafe guard and go with a 4 or 5" long eye. Works great for us (winches on an EarthCruiser and a Tacoma).

Howard
How is that working? I was going to go the same route but some gurus on another forum said it was dangerous. I cannot see a danger, but I do see a safety feature, less moving mass in a line failure. A soft shackle would carry the same load I believe.

Pics?
 

WSS

Rock Stacker
Brummel vs lock stitching - I went over this on a sailing forum. Basically they said with a brummel lock (if that is what we are referring to) you are not really relying on the strength of the entire rope, rather a few strands that you crisscross. The ends still get buried, but back into itself and not the opposing end. I started marketing both since the brummel lock is popular in hammock world and much quicker. Sailing community buy the lock stitched ones I make.

Yea, that looks like a diamond knot shackle with it's ends melted, then the tension pulled it through. I hate melting dyneema. I made a piece for sailing that required a diamond knot. I left the ends long and whipped it so if they ever wanted to melt it themselves, they can.

Setting the eye - I have specs I follow when making each shackle size. I tie the button knot so I pass the eye through a finished shackle for the correct size. Set it so there is enough slack for both legs to be taut.

The yellow is the brummel lock. The green is S pattern lock stitching. These were recent orders I finished. Showing 7/16, 5/16, 3/16, and 7/64, all the last pic with the red 50' hank of 7/64.

The last pic shows low friction rings with diamond knot, with whipped ends vs melted.
View attachment 716927View attachment 716928
View attachment 716929
View attachment 716930TView attachment 716931View attachment 716932View attachment 716933View attachment 716934
Found you on etsy, just bought two 7/16 for my shop. Giving up on chains, using these to link up snatch straps to unload 52' trailers with parts in the nose.
 

Howard70

Adventurer
How is that working? I was going to go the same route but some gurus on another forum said it was dangerous. I cannot see a danger, but I do see a safety feature, less moving mass in a line failure. A soft shackle would carry the same load I believe.

Pics?
Seems fine for us. Not sure why it would be dangerous. I’m in Australia and our lines are in the USA so can’t provide any photos. But we’ve done some heavy pulls without a problem.

Howard
 
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